Key Methods for Building an Internet Marketing Business from Cal Champlin

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Mark Samms: Well… shall we get started?

Cal Champlin: I’m ready!

Mark Samms: There…,ok well the first question is: I want to get a bit of background on who you are and sort of understand on what you were doing before you got into online marketing world and building a business from home and then what happened that caused the transition for you to build “ah I want to do that full time online” or even why you started to get online.

Cal Champlin: Well I am a retired attorney, I was practising law for about 30 years and I also was an elected official in a town just north of Buffalo. I got elected in 1979 as what they call a town councilman, and at the time I was the youngest person – I guess I still am – the youngest person who ever got elected there in public office at that time.

Mark Samms: cool!

Cal Champlin: yeah it was great, I was elected for 7 four-year terms, I was in office for 28 years and I got to the point where there was a little of burn out and I had accomplished everything I wanted to accomplish and I was looking to do something else. Now I first started getting involved with internet marketing because of my involvement in politics. When I was running for re-election in 1999, I decided I wanted to have my own webpage and website and at that point candidates for public office at least in our area were not using the internet.

Mark Samms: what year was that?

Cal Champlin: 1999

Mark Samms: ok so yes, it was quite fresh then still

Cal Champlin: yes, so I registered, I found how to register a domain name, so I got my own name And then I found the network service provider, the service provider I had, had one of those easy-to-use site builders

Mark Samms: so ok cool

Cal Champlin: so I built my own site. So oh great now I’m in business! I put together an easy site. I noted my website on all my campaign literature and I had my launch site…

And then I noticed (laughs) that no one was going to my website and then I started researching and I started typing in Google search “how to get visitors to your website”. And then I found all these things called traffic exchanges and then I started to look at these traffic exchanges, of course they were all internet marketing , network marketing, affiliate marketing related, I just started clicking on them, I said “oh this is neat, look at all these business opportunities there are!” And I always had a notion that someday I always wanted to have my own business. My father and grandfather had their own business; I always wanted to do that. So even though I was still practising law and in government, I started researching and learning different things on internet marketing. In about 2003, I tried to get more serious about it, but I made the same mistake that everybody else would make, you know, promoting affiliate programmes and other people’s products and I wasn’t told actually almost 2 to 3 years ago that I realised I was doing everything wrong . Now everybody says you’ve got to build your list build your list, I knew it but I didn’t do anything about it and I didn’t really grasp the importance of it. Then I attended a, I was going to this website person was teaching internet marketing and I started to paying more attention to that. And then this gentleman came in, we started talking about the importance of building good sales funnels…

Mark Samms: yeah

Cal Champlin: …and I didn’t know anything about them,

Mark Samms: do you remember who it was?

Cal Champlin: it was a gentleman named Vince Craine

Mark Samms: ok

Cal Champlin: Vince is a pretty good marketer who was I guess one of my first mentors. He was in the Boston Massachusetts area but he made an offer on this seminar, he would build a sales funnel for you and put it on your own hosting site and do everything for you and I think… And he would also then send an email, a mailing to his list, you know, promoting the sales funnel. And I think he was charging…. it was around just under $400

Mark Samms: ok

Cal Champlin: and he thought he could do it, well I can’t guarantee upends I can guarantee that you can get so many clicks, and then you should get maybe 300- 350 subscribers. So I’m thinking well ok, I gonna get a sales funnel which I have no idea how to do, and I’m going to get hopefully 300-350 opt-ins, it’s going to cost me a little more than a dollar a subscriber and I’m going to get , plus my own sales funnel so I did it. He put together a great sales funnel for me. He mailed it to his list and I got over 600 upends.

Mark Samms: amazing!

Cal Champlin: it converted around 60 almost 70% in the beginning.

Mark Samms: tell how you were jumping around the room when you saw that happened? (Laughs)

Cal Champlin: oh I was going crazy, I was looking at my email, and I was seeing all these people just opted in into my list. First because he did the sales funnel well, he … I was getting back end sales as well so…

Mark Samms: oh excellent!

Cal Champlin: so I think I maybe made a $100 and that class was $250 so the next thing now that I had the list, I had to figure out what the heck to do with it

Mark Samms: laughs

Cal Champlin: he…

Mark Samms: sorry I lost you there

Cal Champlin: the business…

Mark Samms: I’m losing you I’m losing you

Cal Champlin: the next thing was ad swapping so I started to do ad swapping

Mark Samms: Cal, cal I think I’m losing you, give me 2 secs

Cal Champlin: yeah

Mark Samms: see if we can get the connection better (technical problems resolved)

Mark Samms: so you got the list, so you got up to where you want to be, you got the list and you didn’t know what to do with it, and Vince had some ideas related to that?

Cal Champlin: oh yeah so he got me into sales swaps and ad swapping

Mark Samms: oh cool, cool, so that s a couple of years ago I guess?

Cal Champlin: so great so yes so this was just over 2 years ago and I would swap, I tried to follow what people said, you know, don’t swap every day, so I would swap a couple times a week, in between send a free product and build a relationship with my list and then I started to get more aggressive in the ad swapping. I would use the money from my backends sales so then I started buying solo ads and within a year, I had a list of about 15000 subscribers and had I been more aggressive, I probably could have doubled that but when I first started I was working fulltime still, so I was only doing this part time.

Mark Samms: yes

Cal Champlin: and then about a year ago, when I started making more money I left my job and started doing this full time.

Mark Samms: wow, that’s really cool, that’s really cool. What I like about that, I’m a bit jealous because I never had anybody that came along and actually said give me this amount of money and I’ll send traffic to you I’ll set you up a sales funnel and send traffic to you to your Opt-in page and then so you get 600 leads in your first attempt in internet marketing and then to get the really good advice to get into ad swapping and then build your list up from there , did you just fell into that, did it come perfectly like that or was there some issue as you went along, I’m a bit jealous that it went so well for you! (Laughs)

Cal Champlin: well you know it was a combination of luck

Mark Samms: ok

Cal Champlin: because I happened to be on this website with another person who was doing, you know, online mentoring but I realised I knew that there were some things I had to do that I didn’t know how to do and when he came in the seminar and made his offer everything clicked for me, I said yes this is what I’m looking for, this is what I need to know and need to do and I was willing to spend the money, because let’s face it, a lot of people don’t want to take that risk and spend the money to be mentored by somebody.

Mark Samms: that’s true yes

Cal Champlin: so really it was fortunate, I could have easily had I not met him and if he, if I had just continued to do what I was doing I would probably still be working for someone else right now and not being involved in internet marketing.

Mark Samms: no I understand yeah obviously, that’s not going to be great because you would be spinning your wheels. Thats really good that you were able to come across you were lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time and you came across, something that clicked for you and made sense and you were able to get results from it. So what you did really, you sort of answered some of my other questions as well because I was gonna say what was the first thing you did to get people on your list and the first thing you did was you turn up to a mentorship programme where basically you got a solo ad as part of your package and a sales funnel which allowed you to get your first people onto your list. So that’s really cool. With regards to your Opt-in pages and things like that, have you just kept the same squeeze page that you had from when you started with Vince or have used different squeeze pages and then if so what would you are the key elements to a high converting squeeze page or Opt-in page?

Cal Champlin: well I used the same sales funnel for about 3 months and then, but as you know from being in sale swaps you know if you want to go back to somebody who gave you good results the first time, sometimes you’re better off giving the people something fresh to look at and so I learned- I spent my time learning how to put together my own sales funnels. So you know, I learned how to use Composer as an html editor. I then went to resell some resell rights products, websites, you know to buy resell rights private label rights , I learned how to use FTP you know, and my hosting site to build my own sales funnels so I started experimenting with them and then continue to do buying ad and doing ad swaps and buying solo ads.

Mark Samms: oh

Cal Champlin: so I guess in my experience you say high converting Opt-in page I found that the simpler it is, the better

Mark Samms: ok

Cal Champlin: you don’t necessarily all the fancy graphics that are available you don’t even need, well videos are important because people are interested in video products but you don’t necessarily have to have a video on your Opt-in page. You want to find a product that, something that people need, to solve some kind of a problem…

Mark Samms: ok

Cal Champlin: …that somebody is having, whether it could be in the area of misspelling or SEO or how to use social media. So you just have to have a simple page that describes a problem, you’ll maybe ask a question and then how your product is going to benefit them or solve it, you don’t necessarily have to go into how it’s going to solve it but just say “if you get this free product you’ll be able to do this, this and this and just the Opt-in box to capture the lead so simple works the best. I still had a buy some kind of graphic but I don’t think, I’m not sure after experimenting that it’s really necessary. Of course you should not only have an opt-in squeeze page but you have to have the other things that get tied into it. You know you have to have a thank you page

Mark Samms: aah ok yeah

Cal Champlin: and so immediately after somebody has opted into your list, you know has gone right through your thank you page where you thank the people for subscribing and then you have, “watch out for the email” , “you product is sent to your email” and then you put some other offers in there, if you are involve in an affiliate programme, you put an offer on that, if you selling some products you put an offer on that so that you’re monitoring and monetising it. You also should have, at least, one exit page so somebody after they clicked on you link and your email they decide “no this isn’t for me” they get out of it well you immediately then the person would merely be redirected to either another offer or some other way where you can either, they can opt in into another squeeze page or you may have some kind of special offer.

Mark Samms: ok like a “it’s your last attempt” kind of thing to keep them to show up we do value you sort of thing.

Cal Champlin: and then even on your thank you page you can redirect somebody to another page with some special offers on it and then the other thing that I do is that with my follow up email I would send them to a download page where the download link is in their page but also has some other offers on it. And then in my follow up email “thank you for subscribing” here is the download link for your product and then I might put some other bonuses in there that direct them to other things so if you do all those things, first of all you have a squeeze page you have an exit page a thank you page a redirect on your thank you page a download page a redirect on your download page you know have push an email so you have 7 pieces of real estate in the fact that opportunities to not only get somebody on your list but to monetize your list that way.

Mark Samms: that sounds good that sounds really good and I can see that there are a couple of areas there where I’m missing out on a few things, I could definitively tweak up on it and probably get myself some better conversion rates, that’s interesting, that s really good stuff. What s so annoying about it is that I know the things you are saying but you saying it just reinforces that, I need to go and do that, so that pretty cool , pretty cool, ok… so one thing I wanted to ask because I’ve only just been in sales for just over a month now and I get paranoid about this but you said that you started off with sales swaps where you would say now you have swaps about 3 times a week and then you start to get more aggressive with sales swaps, didn’t that make you worry that you d lose the…you d burn up the list, that they would stop opening, that they would stop clicking

Cal Champlin: yes

Mark Samms: what did you do to maintain the relationship?

Cal Champlin: well it’s sort of a complicated question. There are 2 schools of thought on this. One I call the John Quade No School

Mark Samms: ok

Cal Champlin: John built a list of about a 100000 people in his first year of internet marketing. He was very very aggressive and ad swapping

Mark Samms: ok

Cal Champlin: his point is first of all if you doing ad swapping, yes you going to lose subscribers but you are going to lose subscribers every time you send out an email. You gonna have some “unsubscribe”. Second of all if you doing, if you swapping a lot you are going to gain a lot more new subscribers than you’re going to lose subscribers so it’s always a net gain

Mark Samms: ok so it’s always a net what sorry again?

Cal Champlin: it’s a net gain, you’ll always get new subscribers than you are to lose subscribers

Mark Samms: ok yeah

Cal Champlin: I would say you going to gain 8 new subscribers for every 2 you lose so that s a 3 or 4to1 ratio

Mark Samms; cool so that’s sounds good

Cal Champlin: so you know you can build a relationship with your list in a number of ways you know, I mean one of them is you know, you just don’t send them of course whenever you are sending an ad swap you are offering them a free product and if this product you are offering them is a good product you’re just not swapping with somebody for the sake of swapping but they are providing a good product well your list will appreciate that

Mark Samms: that true that’s very true

Cal Champlin: so if you’re careful with the product and who you’re swapping with, you’re actually building a relationship with your list that way. Now I would follow up and occasionally send my own free…what I would do I would send to my list just free products where they don’t have to opt in. You know “you can click on this link and you can download this” but what I would do is that I would put it on a webpage and I’ll say “here is your free gift” just click on here and it‘ll automatically download so that they don’t have to opt in anything

Mark Samms: ok

Cal Champlin: and people like that because they go “oh good I don’t have to fill my name and give my email address but what I will also do on that page is that I’ll have a like a bonus or “click here for a special bonus “ which might direct them to another affiliate site or another offer so even when I’m sending my list a free product they don’t have to opt in for I’m also putting something in there that could result in a sale or sign up to an affiliate site. So I try to build a relationship with that but when you first starting out try and build a relationship is very very difficult because people don’t know who you are. They only know who you are over time by the quality of what you send them.

Mark Samms: ok yeah

Cal Champlin: so yes you gonna have/use the expression convert your list but if you’re careful of the product you say you always gonna be gaining more subscribers than you’re loosing.

Mark Samms: ok

Cal Champlin: list building is a never-ending process. You never get to the point where your list is big enough

Mark Samms: (laughs) yes I can imagine, I agree I agree

Cal Champlin: so because of that do not worry about unsubcriptions. I remember freaking out

Mark Samms: (laughs)

Cal Champlin: if I had anybody unsubscribing, “oh no I’m losing some people!!”

Mark Samms: “they mustn’t like me!”

Cal Champlin: that’s just part of the process and you can’t be concerned about it and you can’t take personally.

Mark Samms: ok

Cal Champlin: now having said that, if you are in a specific form of internet marketing for example you’re in multi level marketing where you’re sending ….you re sending..lets say ML healthcare niche or health product where you’re trying to get someone to join you and to buy the product and they in turn recoup people to rebuy the product so you building a multi level business well building a relationship is probably more important but even then if you gonna be an MLM marketer, you’re not gonna rely solely on emailing you re gonna be on the phone skype or communicating with people that way so in those kind of businesses you have to be more careful about building a personal relationship with your list but other than that you’re starting out you’re giving away free products to build your list and then other offers in that I don’t think you have to be as concerned , relationships is important but it can sometimes be over emphasized

Mark Samms: oh I understand exactly what you mean and the reason why I asked that question it’s because initially when I started I think it what held me back from using sales swaps (because I knew about sales swaps from ages ago but I thought that maybe its going to damage my relationship with my list and then as I got started in sales swaps and I have been using it to tell you the truth I’ve built more people onto my list definitively more people than I’ve lost and I’ve actually .. and my income has increased as well so its win-win so far and I also got I have spent a bit of time creating a follow up sequence which is quite personal and quite in depth about my story and how it relates to other people who are trying to build a business online and stuff like that. And I get deep talking about mindsets and struggles and so on and so forth and I think because that s like overfeed these whoever chose the list will receive that for freebees I think that a percentage of my list they become very loyal because they really get to know who I am so I think I counter reacted by doing that as well.

Cal Champlin: yes you know there are tradeoffs in anything you do, let’s say you are sending an email sheet that goes out over 30 days well you’ll sort of have to be careful about how many shots you do or other emails you send to them because they don’t want to get….

Mark Samms: …to get too many messages a day

Cal Champlin: but you know one the things that you can sort of train your list and that s why how you word emails can be important. So if they know after a while that you’re giving them good products, you’re also giving them good advice and free advice on things and trying to help them out. I mean that’s an important message I always get it across to your list that you’re getting these things because I’m trying to assist you in being the best marketer you can be. If you do those kinds of things they get used to getting a couple of emails from you a day you sort of train them to expect it so they don’t get upset when they get them. The key is then to be consistent.

Mark Samms: ok yeah

Cal Champlin: if you’re sending a couple of emails a day that is fine, if you don’t send them an email for a week and then one day they get 4 emails then..

Mark Samms: of course that seems like “yeah what the hell, what’s going on here “I see what you mean. A friend of mine, he kept telling me to segment my list. The way he does his one is that anybody who is on his follow up sequence, he has them there alone if they are on the follow up sequence they don’t get any ad swaps messages or anything like that on the follow sequence and then basically everybody that, once the follow up sequence is finished all these inactive people are now just the people who gets something from the broadcast they get their ad swaps and different offerings and things and different interesting broadcasts that he likes to put out there and things like that and I guess that s a way to potentially protect the amount of times you hit somebody up on a daily basis

Cal Champlin: that’s a very good idea I do that to a certain extend depending upon what I’m promoting.

Mark Samms: ah ok now I understand

Cal Champlin: so for example if I’m promoting some type of affiliate programme I may just do that exact same thing and then after that I’ll do it you know market them different type of offers but one of the things I have noticed you got to really pay attention with the statistic that you are tracking and that of course gets into the quality of your auto responder. Now there are a million auto responders out there I actually belong to 4 or 5 of them

Mark Samms: I was going to ask you what s yours…

Cal Champlin: I’m going to say aweber and debtresponser constantcontact I think that’s what it’s called, they’re basically the same they are more expensive as your list gets bigger but they have, you can track your statistic better with them .

Mark Samms: yeah yes I can correspond with them so yeah and I have been using aweber in the past as well
Cal Champlin: and if you one of the things that I noticed is if you look at the percentage of people who read your follow-ups, those numbers drops substantially after a while

Mark Samms: that’s true

Cal Champlin: and so again there is a trade off. I’m not going to send out an email to these people over 30 days because I want them to go through my auto responder sequence well after a while you gonna get to the point where maybe if you are lucky 10 % of the people who are receiving it are going to read to be reading them .

Mark Samms: humhum

Cal Champlin: where as supposed if you are sending them an ad swap you are building your list you are also getting them the people who have seen the product to make money clearly you are better off doing the swapping than waiting for 30 days I mean you could lose…you could sort of lose that person after 30 days.

Mark Samms: yes now I see what you mean

Cal Champlin: that’s why keeping making sure if you are using an auto responder that has good tracking that you pay attention to that if it turns out that you are getting a good response on your follow ups then keep it up. If you can see that the percentage of people clicking at our follow-ups is relatively low then I would change what I’m doing

Mark Samms: could I give you an example then because I’m in my responder now and I’ve got my follow-up sequence up so… I’ve got a campaign where the traffic is generated from sales swaps all goes into this particular campaign so far it had 675 people coming into this funnel and the first email is running nice and strongly at 26% opening rate and a 16.6% click per rate which in my opinion is pretty good but I don’t know, I’m not sure what to compare that against but based on that friends and things like that are also doing online marketing that’s pretty good , so that’s the first day of the sequence if I now go down to day 10 let’s see now…wow down to 4.2 % and .3% per click per rate which basically means that 14 people opened about 10 female and 1 person clicked so that proves your theory .

Cal Champlin: unfortunately yes (laughs from both speakers)

Mark Samms: but then my friend is doing some stuff with headline and stuff like that he’s been able to actually increase ah I’m gonna be implementing some of the stuff that he’s done with the way that he’s been doing his headlines for his follow ups it’s only a couple of % increase but it’s better than nothing if you know what I mean so yeah but yeah it definitively I see what you mean, maybe I worry maybe we worry about nothing?

Cal Champlin: yeah I think until you get to the point where you maybe have branded yourself in a way that you’ve become very well known in the market place then people are gonna read whatever you send them and you gonna get a higher percentage but I think we have to realise even though it might hurt our egos that the average subscribers on our list has no idea who we are and they get so many emails from so many marketers that’s hard for them to know who is who so until you get to the point where for example you come up with your own product and you have other people promoting your product and people know if you get something from a Mike Filsaime or Rich Jeffrey or Deagan Smith, you get something from them you gonna open it up and you gonna open it their follow ups more because …

Mark Samms: because you know they re gonna be dropping something amazing most times

Cal Champlin: right so you know I’m not at that point I’m not expecting people are gonna read all my follow ups or come close to it so I don’t worry about that you know my call is to build my list as big as I can as fast as I can and monetise it by the proper use of thank you pages your exit pages and your download pages

Mark Samms: ok yeah yeah that makes a lot of sense that’s a pretty interesting conclusion

Cal Champlin: but I was just like you I probably spent I don’t know how many months that I spent doing what you are doing and doing what your friend was doing …

Mark Samms: ok

Cal Champlin: …. and then I said well I don’t know I might be …I’m not building my list fast enough because I’m doing all these other things

Mark Samms: ah ok yeah yeah yeah I see what you mean

Cal Champlin: so that’s why…even though people always talk about the importance of building your lists I mean having a relationship with your list f and it is important I tend to subscribe to the John Quane Do theory that you have to be more aggressive yes you are going to lose people but the best way…I think if you really want to I think the people who build the best relationships you’ve got to do more than just email marketing you gonna build a relationship for example if you start doing some say…coaching

Mark Samms: uhuh yeah

Cal Champlin: you know you have …once you get to the point where you feel comfortable enough to give webinars or to have maybe a little membership site where as in addition to giving them the resources on your membership site you say you have a weekly call for all your members to commit with where you can actually do some coaching that’s how you can establish the situation

Mark Samms: yes I can see what you mean and I can see the importance of that and I can see how that has build up my belief in other people and other marketers where it wasn’t just about them or what they mailed to me it was a combination of things like, so if they did mail something to me and I did clicked …they might have a video with pure content and the way they deliver that video first of all I really related with what they were putting forward and it sort of allowed me to build a stronger relationship with that person then like you said, they would do a webinar and I would get to know them in a deeper sense and I might be able to get to interact a bit with them as well and its all of those things that put together and maybe they do an interview or something with somebody else who also I’m interested in as well and all these different points of connections build up my credibility within that person

Cal Champlin: that’s right

Mark Samms: so I see what you mean

Cal Champlin: most people know that you know what you are talking about

Mark Samms: yes very much so of course

Cal Champlin: and that you are willing to help them solve whatever problem they have

Mark Samms: yeah no I agree, I agree completely

Cal Champlin: that’s when it really works

Mark Samms: so I guess then with what I’m doing right now this is another way to build credibility amongst my list of other people members as well because obviously they call it branding for association?

Cal Champlin: branding it’s a traction marketing…

Mark Samms: yeah cos obviously I’m talking about other people who have lists that are bigger than mine I’m also talking about people that have list smaller than mine and I guess people – and obviously people that get to listen to these interviews they gonna get value out there and it is different from just a written text/email now it’s a different way to consume some information and hopefully they can action some of the stuff we’re putting forward which is obviously key, taking action is obviously key that just listen to information doesn’t matter how smart you are if you just listen to it it’s not gonna really gain the results.

Cal Champlin: that’s why videos or webinars are important because studies have shown that people will learn more… people will learn the most from videos, second is audio and last is through emails or eBooks so if you are really trying to make a connection with people to build up your brand and that or video marketing or having web conferences is the best way to do that and it’s the best way forward that the people you dealing with to learn

Mark Samms: ok sorry go ahead

Cal Champlin: oh no I was just gonna it’s like me when I was in school you know I learned much more from the teacher by doing my reading assignment the night before.

Mark Samms: of course yes definitively and I think we’ve covered some really interesting points here so I just wanted to recap on just to make sure so that everybody gets it. So it was about building a relationship and so and so forth and we talked about how frequently you mail your list and weather that has an effect on your opening rates and clicking rates and so on and so forth but what we talked about is that what it’s really about is looking at what angles you can approach to build a relationship with people so it’s not just about what you say within your emails it’s about creating events and maybe doing like a telesummit where you go ahead and invite a load of well known speakers and so on so so forth to an event on it and get all your list on it and get them to mail and stuff like that. Something that helps build your credibility and at the same time helps you deepen the rapport with your list like things like doing video marketing where your list gets to see you in a different dimension it doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to have your face in it you can use part presentation and your voice and create videos or you can use your face, it’s whatever works for you so it’s another way for your list to consume information from you and build trust and credibility around what you are putting forward so those key things I want people to really absorb how important that is it’s not just about …so you are building your list but you are using the leverage in your list to be able to then build a relationship in other ways for webinars or videos marketing teleseminars interviewing other people and things like that so head on calls and learn and work out how you can implement that within your business. I think that’s really important to look at that because I can see how that’s helping me already so I know that if you guys if you are thinking about what to do how you re gonna get yourself going stuff like that make sure that s a core part of your strategy as you go ahead and build your list guys.

Cal Champlin: right and I would also suggest the importance of maybe having a blog

Mark Samms: ah yes forgot about that

Cal Champlin: and using other social media and Skype and not to sell things but you can use Facebook in that if you re gonna incorporate you know getting people to your blog or your facebook through your blog or through other sites to find you on face book well that’s where you can interact with people on a more personal basis and get to know them you know instead of just trying to sell them

Mark Samms: very true yes

Cal Champlin: and say “hey how you doing “hey what you up to” its all combined all these things are combined

Mark Samms: hey cool so my other question there is one that I think will help people a lot but then it might be a bit hard in regards to answering it but I’m gonna ask anyway. What would you say are, is the biggest mistakes or errors you made? I’ve got it down here as while building your list but just in general in your business as you’ve been building your business online what you would say your biggest mistake has been what would you advice people to avoid, if they can.

Cal Champlin: well I think the first thing when you re …you know a newbie’s when you’re relatively new is don’t build other people’s lists now what I mean by that is, too often the first thing we do is, we join affiliate sites and then we promote those sites exclusively and of course people opt in to the squeeze page for an affiliate site. What’s happening well first of all they’re going on somebody else’s list so never join an affiliate programme or some other things unless those signed ups get on your list. If they don’t have a way to get on your list they’re only going on someone else’s list well you’re wasting your time because you can’t do anything more with that so ..

Mark Samms: yep

Cal Champlin: build your own list you know , don’t build somebody else’s I mean I wasted probably 5 or 6 years doing that chasing the next bright shiny object so to speak and you don’t get any place other than spending a lot of money. The biggest other thing is you really have to make sure you follow up and follow up promptly whenever you get request for help or assistance that goes into relationship building and branding, and the other thing tied into that , when I first got into this, you know, building the list, is that you really got to mail people consistently because all of a sudden you have all these people on your list and you are not following through by sending them other things well the response rate is going to go down huge from that and that’s what I did . The other thing is to …you have to do testing you know.. and you have to look at what you are promoting critically like if you are doing ad swapping you might be swap a product and you find out that your ad …that you didn’t get a lot of opt-ins from the person you re swapping with, well the first thing you could say that person must have a bad list or it’s possible that there are problems with your website or there are problems with your emails so you gotta to say well ok maybe it’s not converting because I have had a bad email maybe I got lazy and maybe I copied somebody else’s copy on something instead of making it appropriate to my list and of course if you do the same thing over and over you don’t get results I mean you gotta change things so tweaking emails, subject lines and contents, attempt changing your squeeze pages and you’ve got to do things like that and if you don’t make any, you’ve got to be willing to change and to make changes and you have to test so I’ve made a lot of mistakes that way especially when I started changing my sales funnels, I was wondering why I wasn’t doing as well it was because I didn’t either have the right emails or I didn’t have the opt in page setup the right way and I didn’t bother to test it so you have to test you have to test all the time. So that was really a big mistake. The other mistake I’ve made initially and I have touched on this before was by not sending more email, doing my list faster. It’s like once they start coming in and I was doing ad dropping, you don’t …you have to continually build your list and do it all the time and using other kind of traffic sources as well and you can get lazy and if you let your list stagnate, the list doesn’t grow, and you are in trouble and I learned that the hard way after a while when I built up my list to a certain point, instead of getting new subscribers I was just sending out more offers to my list in order to make money and what was happening is that the opening rate from my emails was going down and that because I wasn’t getting more subscribers but you are always losing them every time you send out an email

Mark Samms: yes yes

Cal Champlin: …. you know, I was actually going downhill so I said no, you’ve gotta to do something every day that you are building your list

Mark Samms: k yes that’s really good advice there really really good advice ok excellent, eeerm as you was building your list this is not one of the questions that I sent over but as this conversation went along it came to me, as you was building your list was there a time when you were discouraged ah you know what forget this I’ve had enough, right and why and what kept you going?

Cal Champlin: the discouragement was not making money right away and you really have to…there are people who will say well you can have a list of 500 subscribers but if you build a good relationship you gonna make money or they tell you that every subscribers you have should be worth about a $1000 a month (laughs from both speakers)

Mark Samms: I used to believe that (laughs)

Cal Champlin: that’s not the way it is. The people who say that probably do the people who will sell a $1000 -$5000 training packages where you can get an average of something like that but for people who are starting out it doesn’t work that way. But what I found once you start building your list and you get to the point where you can deliver so many clicks one of the things to do is to monetise your list is to sell solo ads

Mark Samms: ok

Cal Champlin: there is a huge market for that and for example you can deliver 100 clicks

Mark Samms: yes

Cal Champlin: you can sell a solo ad and make 50 bucks every time you sell a solo ad well if you r e doing that every day then you are making 50 buck a day and for people who are starting out , you want to be making 50 buck a day so you have to look at different ways to monetise your list. One of the things I’ve noticed that new marketers tend to do is that they’ll join a programme I’m not gonna name any programme but I can probably give you 4 or 5 that you would know right away but people all they do is they advertise your programme so they might even buy solo ads for those programmes so whenever the bright shiny object is out there that what all the new people are doing they get involved they are promoting them. You should have your own product. You can direct, again if you setting up your sales funnel the right way you can direct on your thank you pages or your other internet real estate you can direct them to those offers but get them on your list of some other product, free product first and you immediately direct them onto what you’re doing, I think you want to promote your own products. I mean they could mean resale right products or they can be private labels products that you’ve repackaged, you know you put your name on the eBook that you’ve repackaged things like that or changed the graphic whatever. Give away your own product and not be promoting with your squeeze pages and your opt-in pages don’t be promoting other products or other affiliate products. Get them on your list and then direct them to that.

Mark Samms: ok yes yes yes I see what you mean that makes a lot of sense yeah! why wouldn’t you put the bridge page being the squezze page because first of all it allows you to market other things to that person rather than just giving the lead away and then they’ll buy it and you’ll never see them again I know a lot of these funnels have allowed cookie and so and so forth but it’s not often they don’t buy

Cal Champlin: no every once in a while I would get a sale on something and I’m thinking to myself where did that come from? And for something that was month ago and all sales funnels I don’t even know where the people found the site and finally getting around to reading some emails , you know your best chance of getting a sale is at the point when they are on your website when they‘ve opted into your list not 2 or 3 weeks later with follow up emails so you have to make sure that you use all the different tools you can you know with the opt in page the thank you page your download page and your exit pages

Mark Samms: so you need to optimize I guess it’s that welcome funnel it’s to optimise your welcome funnel

Cal Champlin: yes it’s the first impression is your strongest impression if you gonna make a sale

Mark Samms: of course of course and that makes a lot of sense because when I think about it about my stats and things like that the majority of my sales comes from the first point of contact that’s the first time they come onto my list through the first email I get in the follow up the majority of the sales comes from that or the first often they see after they opt in and then yes there is sales through the follow up and through broadcast and so and so forth but they can’t match the point of contact

Cal Champlin: yeah, you wanna have a combination of some things. You wanna have one product that hopefully they’ll purchase and maybe you wanna have another product which is an affiliate offer of some type so that first of all they usually sign up for free but if they decide to become a member, a paid member of their programme now you are getting residual monthly income so you want to have a combination of instant income through a product you’re promoting and then a residual income from an affiliate programme.

Mark Samms: yes that makes a lot of sense

Cal Champlin: and then you’ve got to tie all those things into your… pages I see just so many marketers, because I sell a lot of solo ads who have a nice opt in page and I’ll test the offer so I’ll give them my name and email address and then there is no thank you page. You get the standard message from your auto responder and I’m thinking “what a waste!”

Mark Samms: yeah very much so I can see that

Cal Champlin: or maybe there is no exit page so these people got my name on their list but they are not gonna sell me anything because they didn’t offer me anything

Mark Samms: yes well there you go that makes a lot of sense wow ok so I’ve learned loads today this is really cool! I like it when that happens so with regards to … so obviously you had mentors you studied certain information and so on and so forth would you want to give credit to one particular mentor or one particular piece of training or few different pieces or would you say is more about is there anything in particular that you would say right when I took action on this information it changed my world and obviously what you did at the beginning with …..

Cal Champlin: well Vince Craine he changed that you know.. A person who Ive seen a lot of but never really attended any of his things until relatively recently is Deagan Smith

Mark Samms: ok yes I see… What you mean

Cal Champlin: and he is excellent

Mark Samms: a few people have said that to me as well

Cal Champlin: some of the best training, of course you have to you know when you go through these things and you’re going to the training you have to act on what you’re being taught if you don’t act on anything it doesn’t make any difference but he has a way, he gives great information but you are paying for some of these things you might pay $97 or $197 to attend one of his webinar but I’ve just attended some things recently where it’s already had an immediate impact on how I’ve done business and I’ve seen immediate results so. So first of all its important to find a mentor, there are some good people out there you have to check them out and do diligence and sometimes you have to take some chances. You might attend something that cost $97 and you got nothing out of it but you gonna find somebody, but that doesn’t mean you’d say “oh I’m gonna do this anymore” but I think Daegan Smith is … he’s been around for a number of years not a long time but maybe really successful on the last say 3 years and he just gives great information and great content and you have to pay attention to how he does it because he … and you should do this for any time you are listening or watching somebody. Not only learn what they are teaching you but pay attention to the techniques they are using and how they are teaching you.

Mark Samms: that’s a very good insight

Cal Champlin: because you can learn as much from that and if you put those practices into a fact you gonna learn just as much from as to how they do things as to what they are teaching you.

Mark Samms: that’s a very good insight and again I can show proof on how that’s the case from the reason why I wanted to do interviews and stuff like that is because, I don’t know if you’ve heard of Andrew Warner from Mixergy ?

Cal Champlin: I’m sorry no I haven’t (laughs)

Mark Samms: no it doesn’t matter but basically he’s got a website you should definitively check it out, his web site is called Mixergy and he basically interviews start up companies, new tech entrepreneurs, he interviews companies that failed and then that had to pivot and things like that and I gained so much valuable information from what he was doing, it just inspired me to want to sort of do some of the same things in regards to in adding value to my list as well. I thought that over time as I listened to his interviews and I started taking action on things I just became more and more of a fan and I always find myself, I don’t have to have an email for him to remember to go to his site, I find myself sometimes I’ll be seating in there with not much to do and I’ll think “oh let me go over to his site “ and watch a video or watch one of his latest interview or things like that so yeah I definitively see what you mean about watching what people are doing and actually learning from them and then in a sense taking action and making it happen which is the manifestation of why we are here today . So it’s pretty cool

Cal Champlin: yeah it can something as simple as for example if you are struggling with whether its email copy or webpage well let’s face it we , most of us are signing up for things every day , pay attention to why did you sign up for this , how did they word something that made you attracted, what was on their website

Mark Samms: aaah yeah and that’s one thing that I do when I’m thinking about sometimes about the subject line I’ve got like an email that I have signed up a lot of my stuff with and in a sense it’s like my swap bible if you like I look at all the emails that people send me and when you see the one that I have opened, I’m thinking why did I open that one? And you can see there are certain reasons sometimes, I’ll be looking or I’ll be scrolling through the different emails and I’ll feel myself, without even thinking I’ll click a certain email and I do I definitively ask myself why did I do that what was it was it the name at the beginning said somebody that I knew or was what they say that caused so much curiosity I just had to find out what else they had to say and how can I steal that formula and pull it into my own for my type of work.

Cal Champlin: I have a folder with my email and my gmail account, when I find emails like that I save them and put them in that folder so when I go and look for ideas and how to word things or do things I just go back to that

Mark Samms: yes definitively and that’s been very helpful for me in regards in getting some good opening rates and things like that as well cos yeah why reinventing the wheel when you’ve got a lot of what you need is coming at you anyway

Cal Champlin: especially when you’re brand new and you re and you re maybe reluctant writing and doing your own writing

Mark Samms: you can reverse engineer what other people are doing basically

Cal Champlin: right

Mark Samms: that’s some really good stuff there

Mark Samms: so wow this is really been a very good interview, we’ve gone through some really important stuff we talked about the importance of building good relationships and that versus the importance being quite aggressive in your list building and then making sure that you are consistently doing things to put more people on your list no matter what. We talked about some of the observations and not necessarily the errors and the mistakes but observations of the things that you learned as you went along, I think you might have not been testing your sales funnels tweaking things looking at your numbers and seeing what’s actually happening and taking action based on your numbers and things like that so that’s been really cool. We talked about obviously the opt in pages and how important they are and different elements of Opt-in pages so I would like to say thank you very much for actually spending the time with us today and giving that value because you didn’t have to, do you know what I mean, you didn’t have to at all and for doing that I’m very grateful. Also what I would like to do , the people that are listening to this call if they want to know more about you Cal and what you’re doing and how they can keep in touch with you , obviously I wanna put this up on a blog page, I’ll message you and I’ll get some links from you that you want me to put on the page also, but just for now, if you could just let people know what’s the best way to get in touch with you or following you and stuff like that.

Cal Champlin: well my Skype is a great way of doing it

Mark Samms: are you sure you want to give up your Skype?

Cal Champlin: sure!

Mark Samms: ok cool cool cool

Cal Champlin: Oh yeah I like talking

Mark Samms: ok good good good

Cal Champlin: text me then call me

Mark Samms: alright (laughs )

Cal Champlin: and I am as better that would be just cal.champlin my email address

Mark Samms: and guys just before if you are emailing Cal, please don’t just email randomly, at least try to think what you gonna put forward and come up with something constructive so he’ll want to answer you back not “how do I make more money “or something silly like that be a bit constructive with the type of question that you may put forward to Cal ok guys?

Cal Champlin: and of course think about some links to give you so you can have them and people can…

Mark Samms: that would be great … what s your main website

Cal Champlin: you know… I have a list building blog website that I actually just started its called : its

Mark Samms: ok cool so its guys and there’ll be a link to that…

Cal Champlin: because I have a lot of websites but they tend to be a lot of squeeze pages

Mark Samms: ok

Cal Champlin: and then I have a blog at but that’s more of a personal type of blog as supposed to a business blog but that’s another way.

Mark Samms: well if you want to get to know Cal on a personal level as well definitively go over to his personal blog calchamplin

Cal Champlin: actually it’s a good English name Mark, my ancestors are from the UK

Mark Samms: oh ok how did you end up back in the States?

Cal Champlin: well 400 years ago (laughs) they were escaping the troubles going on in England in the early 1600

Mark Samms: oh wow! Ok deep roots! Deep roots, cool, wow, my ancestors are actually from the Caribbean’s and Africa as well, I’m here but I was born here in the UK so…

Cal Champlin: yes you can’t tell anymore whereby people live, you can’t tell necessarily where they originally came from

Mark Samms; that is so true so true (laughs) oh dear but as I said, I’m very grateful that you came on today Cal and I think we had a very good interview I think we’ve covered some really interesting things so I hope you guys get value from it but not just get value from it, listen to it and think “oh that was good, that was interesting actually take some action because without action doesn’t matter how smart you are nothing’s gonna happen so guys and girls, make sure you take action on the information you got today and thats all from us. This is Mark Simms over and out and we’ll speak to you soon, thanks Cal

Cal Champlin: thank you Mark, have a great day.

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