Building an Effective Landing Page with Carl Willis

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Mark Samms: So starting off, the first thing I sort of ask yourself is really before you started online marketing or doing anything online. What was you doing before that? Right and then… so what was you are doing before you started online marketing and then what was it that cause you to feel that you needed to do something online or supplement your income and what happened?

Carl: Yeah! Well, let me get into that. My background is in the banking and financial advisory industry so I have a drinking water business, doing traditional advertising phonebooks, newspapers, those kinds of things, it depends. Secondarily, I also am a minister so I led local churches and so I began to use the internet a little bit and blogging you know putting a sermon notes off, those kinds of things. So you know had a little familiar already with it you know used it to network a little bit but I never really you know took advantage of it from a business stand point especially the financial advisory business here on the states you know it’s highly regulated it was tough to put anything online so I never really, really dealt with it and so what really happened with me was in 2008, my specialty as a minister is I would go into churches that were dying and nurse them back to health get them turned around.

Turn them over to a new leadership and then move on and so I took a wrong church that I couldn’t get turned around and I ultimately ended up you know I found myself unemployed. I found myself with no money and I was really looking at what are my options and so I decided you know what I have spent you know 10 years turning around these functional troubled churches.

I want to start churches from scratch. I want to start them with fresh DNA. I want to build them up so that they are healthy from the beginning and so I really kind of committed myself to that process and one thing is that I needed a way to support myself.

Mark Samms: Of course yes.

Carl: So you know so what I began to look at was a couple of things. I needed something that was mobile, that could move around with me that I can take around the world with me. I did ministry to work in places like India, 02:31 Uganda so I needed to be able to work all the time so the day and night and I needed to be able to automate a lot of what I do and so ended up closing down my financial advisory practice and begin this whole journey of learning internet marketing and so you know you will hear me talk a lot as we talk about the journey and so you know beginning at the place where you know just enough to be dangerous but not really a factor.

Mark Samms: Yeah, okay.

Carl: You know and then learning how to become highly effective and then taking at a step further on how do you set yourself apart from every other marketer who’s out there.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: Marketing the same things you are doing so for me and my niche has been in the network marketing arena I wanted to develop a residual based income and I wanted to develop businesses that I can plug people into very quickly and give them skill sets to support themselves.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: And so for me I ended up moving in the network marketing arena but using affiliate marketing as a cash flow mechanism going into that so that is kind of the basic you know overview of how I got to where I am today.

Mark Samms: That’s interesting, that’s interesting because I remember when I was starting out I was a – got internet market. I think that is like a rough passage when you are starting out on it and when touches comes of network market in type of project and some people it works for and some people it doesn’t work for or maybe they just have a wrong system or the wrong mentor and so on and so forth but I’m (04:15) which is something that you really have to put for people’s doors and by household products and things like that. I tried that, I tried herbal life. I tried tea solutions when it came over to the UK and something would say that I fell to each one of these things. They way I look at it is that, each one of these things even though I am not doing it now, they were the building blocks and education that when I keep finding the right path for myself, that I was able to use that knowledge that I have learned from those things which was confidence in you know approach people to purchase some business and things like that and actually apply them to what I now do which is so on and so forth to put them in the house and get them partnership and things like that and lots and lots of products so like I feel that the journey was my foundation that build me up to where I was supposed to be so I definitely understand where you are coming from and would you say it right now you still – are you still in networking marketing right now?

Carl: Oh! Yeah, very, very much so.

Mark Samms: In fact, I know that actually. I have done my research and I know exactly what you are with and so on and so forth and so, that’s great! And I actually know some that is in the same – say you have (05:39) I think is…

Carl: Yes.

Mark Samms: I knew him from back in a day and he (05:44) to the mentor and mentor’s immersion. I have actually ever heard of that one, that was really on school on back in the day and that really helped me in regards to – that’s what helped me get my first telesales job because I learned how to approach people backed it up in telephone and calling people and then because of that I was able to ask to go and get a job in the real world as a telesales consultant and things like that, so it is really interesting the way that things work. So that is cool! So you have seen – that’s the reasons why you got into (06:16) you wanted to be able to support yourself and be able to put yourself wherever you was during your work as a Christian and spreading the word of God, right?

Carl: Yes.

Mark Samms: Okay, yeah! That is fine so as you started so you — so now I started into the world of online marketing like you have got tons of information of it. I know you was faith with different offers about we are going to make you a millionaire overnight, we are going to make you a millionaire within a month, we are going to make you a millionaire like you can make money from this, you can make money from that. How did you first of all choose what to go into? What was your first purpose there and then how did you start to build up your leads and your – I guess your followers, your tribe within that business and that question basically is not asking you in how did you get your first people onto your list but how did you build your first tribe is what is the way I want to sort of fill out there.

Carl: Yeah! Exactly I took the journey I think most of us take you know we come online. We have got whatever product we have decided is going to make us rich and so we just started throwing a wink out everywhere we can think of and of course nobody buys anything and so of course you know you step back and you go “Okay, that did not work” so kind of a journey for me and the second part of the journey is most of us started out going “What can I do is the cheapest? What do I not have to spend a lot of money on?”

Mark Samms: Very true.

Carl: And so the migration you know for me and for a lot of people is if you started it with traffic exchange is “Okay! I can sit here in (07:59) and look at people sites and you do not have them look at my site of course you know I got tired of clicking and nobody buying” so I step back a little further and I came in contact with (Paul Kinder) and he runs a traffic splash but part of what he ran as well was a service called affiliate funnel.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: That talked about the idea if personal branding which you brand yourself first and then introduce products and services on the back end.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: And immediately the light bulb went on because that is how I build my financial advisory business. I was across the town square from my largest competitor, we sold the same things. We literally can’t stare with each other in our office windows and the way that I built my business was I set myself apart from him and so maybe a little light bulb went on and kind of that you know dull moment where you go “really!” and how could I miss that? And so began to transform the way I went about to business so I started promoting myself first and using that attraction marketing base principle. I am going to come out here and be the guy that is different.

Mark Samms: So when you say like be the guy that is different, like you want to stand out and be different, how could you go about that? Because I always see a few guys are doing stuff (09:33) it’s probably working for them so how did you go about being different in a new market?

Carl: Yeah! Well, I think it comes under a couple of things, you know you realize that not everybody speaks your language but a lot of people do.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: And so what people are looking for a lot of times is they have already decided that they are not going to go for a product, for a service or for a program but they are looking for who do I think can help me the most to be successful of this so you know that is what I tell at network marketing distributors. There is 10,000 to million you know whatever that number is other distributors out there selling the same thing or if it is an affiliate product or service, same scenario so we have all got the same chapter page, we have all got the same sales pitch, we have all got the same auto-responder series. It is also what do you do to distinguish yourself and so I begin to focus more on if I want to sell drills, instead of talking about drills I talk about drilling holes and if I can teach a person to drill more holes faster, bigger, more effectively I am going to sell more drills. So I took that same approach to my marketing.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: To where I instead of talking about my product I am going to teach you how to market on Facebook. I am going to teach you how to get your mindset right. I am going to teach you how to deal with people who will tell you no.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: All of those types of things, the things that once you have chosen your million dollar products you still have to figure out.

Mark Samms: Exactly!

Carl: If you are going to be successful so that is what I did. I began to use video; it very heavily began to do a lot of my own capture pages. It still leads you to the same thing but they work different. It was something that you have not seen before.

Mark Samms: Okay, yeah!

Carl: And that is really how I begin to build that connection and then as I got more advanced you know I started out there so I began to generate a few leads on the traffic exchanges and (11:40) in the traffic exchange could it pull for this will achieve broke people without spending money anyway.

Mark Samms: Very true. I have been there myself. I actually know that is the truth.

Carl: So you know I finally figured out I got to market somewhere else or give them the traffic exchange.

Mark Samms: Yeah!

Carl: So I was generating leads but they would not buy anything. You know what I am saying?

Mark Samms: Yeah!

Carl: So I am developing list…

Mark Samms: I think my first 2500 leads were that type of lead and I thought I think I need to change something else because I am not making any money so yeah! The truth is that.

Carl: So again I moved. I you know I advanced to the next step you know the next logical step. I became a sales list guy you know same principle. I will look into your sites and you will look at mine but this time we are going to email each other.

Mark Samms: Yeah!

Carl: And so I build a bigger list. A little more responsive but still the same problem is people are really broken don’t have any money and that is why that they are marketing and so I have got to – as I am reading along, I started using more systems and found systems that would really automate my processes a lot more and so that became good, so now I just needed to match up my traffic sources and so but I ended up landing on as my primary buildings were video, blogging and content based marketing and once I did that everything really began to come together. Hyper targeted leads, people who would pull out there credit cards and spend money.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: All of those types of things plus video and blogging and those types of avenues allowed me to insert my personality and they are from center.

Mark Samms: Yes, yeah!

Carl: And so very quickly I can find people who are either going to connect with me or people who are just going to move on anyway and so I became really excited about that because even though I may not get the nearer the numbers of leads I would not sum the mass in marketing strategies I get a higher quality of lead and so you know whereas if I were doing a pay per click campaign it might take me 30 leads to generate the same kind of revenue that two or three will generate from a content marketing strategy.

Mark Samms: Okay Definitely! I understand that completely so that is really interesting when I have been there a few in using different people and it is really interesting to see the similarity that people going to start when you are gone through as they build the business up like traffic exchange and the things like traffic swamp, traffic… I am following these things as I remember I just started thinking this is it! Like wait in few seconds and then I once it called in the phone “yeah! This is what is I am going recommend and like you say you step back and like “hold on, what can be the result?” “hold on, what do I need to change?” and so you keep stepping back and keep stepping back and it is like what happened is that you get stuck out of the 14:53 when you realize “oh! What I actually need to do is this and so yeah, yeah!” so it is definitely a journey that you go through and it is just really interesting plus at the same time relieving that other people are gone for the same thing as well.

Carl: Oh yeah! Yeah! Very much! Okay and you know where to begin is kind of interesting how you will go for in circle because now that I have got good cash flow coming in, I moved back into some mass traffic strategies that are paid because I still realize that that list needs to grow and so.

Mark Samms: Okay, yes. Yes!

Carl: You know the thing with that hyper focused list is yes, they are very responsive, they spend more money than anybody else but it is a greatly narrow group of people and so it is still important for me to be 15:47. You know that funnel…

Mark Samms: Leads in your system, yeah!

Carl: Exactly! In to the system and of course the other part is you get more advanced, you learn how to segment what you are doing so you are creating separate list for what you are doing and your targeting campaign stores, you know…

Mark Samms: You are answering too many of the questions for over a long now.

Carl: Yeah! Yeah!

Mark Samms: You are asking some of the questions that I have got lined up for later on. That is a bit more than what stuff I am going to get into later on in segmenting and stuff like that but before we go into segmenting and the importance in knowing who your buyers are who – surveying your list and things like that. I want to sort of try and do some of the basic elements first of all because I know that on my list I have got a lot of newbie a lot of people that is just starting out, stuff like that so I want them to understand some of the nuances of what you are doing in the beginning so what I would like to ask you is and (16:42) everybody this is if for example when you create (16:47) leads you offer some new traffic but then you are sending that page that allows you to click that person’s details. Now what is that about that page which requires an opt-in page, squeeze page, landing page, whatever you want to call that, what is it about that page? What are the key elements about that page that allows somebody to convert which means put their name and their email address in and press something in or give me instant access? Can you give me let us say free key elements.

Carl: Sure!

Mark Samms: That you would say are important about that page.

Carl: Well I want to give some of my own findings and I think they are pretty consistent you know…

Mark Samms: Yes, yes, please, please.

Carl: across the industry pretty as well. You know you need an attention grabbing headline. It is just like an introduction. If you don’t like a first impression that they are not going to read anything else on the page so the best headlines or either going to dig into some pain or they are going to reveal a short coming that causes a person to take some pause and so we like to you know the best headlines are those that expose pain to make a person feel like they are missing out on something or just really 18:07 that is causing to – I got to find out more.

Mark Samms: Curiosity then, yes.

Carl: You know that thing. The second thing the course video out converts text any day of the weeks so if you can stick a video anywhere on that capture page you are probably better off. People like to be entertained. They will watch a video before they read a book.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: It is just the way we are (18:33) it and then you know but simplicity is great too so there is sometimes that if I have just a simple headline in a captive box it is just is effective so I think it depends on what you are trying to move in towards.

Mark Samms: Okay, so…

Carl: And then the third thing, well the third page it looks 18:52 is that opt-in box, there is two ways to look at. If all I ask for is your email, I am going to get a lot more subscribers but if I ask for your name and your phone number, I may not get as many subscribers but anybody that gives me that information is more serious buyer so again if I am looking for mass numbers or I am looking for people who are going to pull out their credit card, I can decide which of those strategies I want to use or sometimes I would rather make you jump a few extra hoops and hurdles so I don’t waste my time with you because you are tiring me, especially if I am doing a lot of phone work and that is definitely where I want to go.

Mark Samms: Yeah of course, of course.

Carl: Now if I just want to drive a lot of traffic through a funnel I am not even going to ask for your name, I am just going to ask for your email because there is less…

Mark Samms: Resistant.

Carl: Less revealing the 19:43 and you are more likely to give me that information.

Mark Samms: It is like a little various issues, isn’t it? Yeah, definitely, definitely, I want to sort of dig in to that a little bit more now because I have thought about this a lot and the psychology of say you just take the email address, so you take the name and email address, does it make a difference if you will take the name, email address and the telephone number and does that actually make a person more qualified or does once you have got say that for example you took just the email address but then you have no name and 20:14 that will build a relationship. I am so confused with that and I think about it all the time and it is like I find it hard to sort of work out what will be the best way – I guess what I have to do is create three different campaigns 20:29. One for just the email, one for just the name and the email address, one for name, email address and telephone number and then have the same follow up sequence or same funnel that they will go through and see which one gets the best results. I guess that will be the only way to solve this side. What’s the best? What are your thoughts on that?

Carl: Well again I think it is how you operate. If you are dealing with a business or product or service where you are going to be following up by phone then I will 21:02 additional information. I just like to make the phone call but the person who gives their phone number you know if I give you my phone number, I pretty much know you are going to call me. I am giving you permission to call me.

Mark Samms: Very much so yeah, definitely!

Carl: And that means I am a lot more serious about what I am searching for than just the guy that 21:23 fake Gmail address that he knows all of his list of 21:28.

Mark Samms: Okay, yes.

Carl: Which 21:29 all of us do so don’t feel guilty.

Mark Samms: I see.

Carl: But I think you know when you really come down to it and mark the people who give you that information on the front end probably spend more money with you in the long run.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: Because they have already revealed a lot about themselves just by doing it.

Mark Samms: Yes.

Carl: Whereas you know we will get more numbers if we don’t ask for that but we have got to work harder on the back end to develop that relationship you know there is already a degree of trust. If I am willing to give you my phone number that means something there were no red flags. I did not look at your page and go this look scam, I am not about to give him my information.

Mark Samms: Okay, yeah.

Carl: You know whereas if I do that and I actually give you a real number that means that I can have confidence on what you put out there and so you know I am already viewing you as somewhat kind of expert and whatever that topic is all so you know I think there are both you have to test them both ways but certainly I find you know for the network marketing environment. I would much rather use main address and phone number because I am looking for people who are going to commit to the team and stay with me.

Mark Samms: Yeah!

Carl: Affiliate marketing on the other hand, we are not building a team, you 22:58 from product who you are going so let us move some numbers through there.

Mark Samms: So that is a unique difference there, in the way you are marketing based on…

Carl: Absolutely!

Mark Samms: Okay, I see that now because I am more on affiliate marketing than in network marketing so the number would maybe only be necessary if I was 23:15 in a webinar and I wanted to see…. and as a mentor, I would just have to remind people that the webinar is starting in like half an hour or three or five minutes or something to that nature so and that will be an optional thing sort of thing but yeah! I see what you mean as if with internet marketing it is a lot more relationship centric, in regards to you talk 23:38 so you talk with people you get on group course and so on and so forth. There is a lot more involvement there and you want to see that the person is willing to sort of give out their information to be part of that change sort of things so yeah. I see what you mean. You are qualifying that person beforehand, that makes a lot of sense so just a recap from where a quite a few different things there, in relations to the opt-in page (24:05) you say that the best things and I might say I agree of you as fully as always. A very (24:11) headline. The headline is to grab their attention, needs to pause to ask some sort of questions that leads to curiosity to make you want to learn more or make some sort of statement that you need to figure out like that is a bit of a harsh statement or that is a bit of a shocking statement or something of that nature. In your testing you have seen that and I was on that situation as well, that a video gets you… gets more results than text and it is just the fact people do just find it easier just to view a video than read a whole other text, so, that is something that on my opt-in page in the moment, I have not brought it completely into place but I think I should now and I know that it will increase my opt-ins, my conversation rate on my landing page so that is one thing I need to get myself accountable for and take action that I should put a video on my opt-in page.

Because my opt-in page converts quite well but I have a video there and I am pretty make it convert even better so I guess I am going to implement that and opt-in box, so, with the opt-in box you were saying it is about for yourself (25:22) makes you sure that you qualify that person by asking them for a name, e-mail and telephone number because in that scenario, that is the type of qualification you need to know that this person is worth picked-up and served in for and starting that initial relationship for it. Is there anything about the position of that opt-in box that is important to you?

Carl: Oh! Yes I think so; I wanted to put it off to the right because that is the natural flow of the eyes. The other thing I always do is there is always a bigger oak, the points to it or set of arrows and entails you exactly what I want you to do.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: Please enter in your name, e-mail, phone number you know to move on to whatever the (26:01) proposal is.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: And so you know that is and since there are newbie (26:15) proposal simply means I am offering you something have value in exchange to your information. It is one of the greatest tools that you know, you need to learn very quickly. People will opt-in when they think that they are getting something have value from you so I want to go and (26:32) that but yeah! I like it off to the right and I level it to the video and so the person that gets on watching the video, they can just look. In the video I normally tell them “Enter the information in the box on the right” so there is just a lot of things pointing to that box and getting your attention there.

Mark Samms: Okay, so the only question I have got is that you know because I have just got and used a (26:58) swaps and I have actually – and it should be in the program for a month now and obviously, I think I came in with the strong standing because I have a decent size of list as I came in to the trace that it was quite easy to get established quite quickly in there but one thing I have noticed is that obviously, to make it work you need to inquire a different swaps and you need to inquire a lot of swaps and I think I have a little paranoia because I think it was a… I can’t think of these swaps, is it going to make – is it going to affect my relationship in my list and so and so forth but then I have to spend a lot of time in creating a follow up sequence where I thought a lot of information, enter about my story and I really tried to build a story around what I did and so on and so forth and that’s all in regards to increase in my open rates slowly and my click per rates and the consistency of me generating sales but what is your thoughts in regards to how you maintain a good relationship with your list and do you think that mailing your list everyday or every other day affects that relationship or what things could affect or what things you can make? Yeah! What is your views on that really?

Carl: My views are evolving…

Mark Samms: Sorry about the way I asked questions. It is just like…

Carl: No! No, it is great! My views on that are evolving a little bit.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: I used to be really worried about that but I really come to the conclusion that there is one thing I want on that list. I either want you to engage and buy something or I want you to unsubscribe so I can quit paying for you.

Mark Samms: So true. Yeah!

Carl: Yeah, that seems pretty brash but at the end of the day I am paying a web for you to be on that list and if you are not going to take advantage of tools and recommendations that I make to you when I am looking at the safe swap, I looked at my offer in that capture page if I do not think it is a good fit, I am not going to send it to you but if you are just going to sit there looking for the next freebie offer, you are not going to make any money, get off my list and that seems a little bold and brash and harsh but that is the truth of the matter and that is a little bit of the danger with safe swaps is we are exchanging free offers back and forth and so a lot of times that we are building up a list of freebie seekers.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: And freebie seekers do not really make us a whole lot of money at the end of the day. We almost get in to the traffic exchange trap a little bit.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: But the beauty of it is, most of the list owners we have got buyers in those list as well.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: So it is not a bad thing but I think the real key is does that offer fit the personality of your list? I am not being afraid to tell another list owner, listen it is not just a fit from my list, I am not going to send it and you know if you want to try different offer break, send it to me, I will look at it but there are just some people you know I had got a guy here a few weeks ago, we tried different offers that he sent but none of them were fit from my list. They were all a get rich quick type offers and I was in that kind of stuff in my list.

I will send training, I will send you courses on how to learn anything you want to learn but I am not going to send you a get rich quick offer so I think that is you know that is the thing but I think the other thing you know that we can do Mark is we just practice our list and you know from time to time I am going to send you offers for other marketers that I think are some value that make help you in which you are trying to do because you know when I become that resource was funny is I get emails back, they will say “Hey! This offer you sent out today, is this really a good thing? Do you really think I have to take a look at it?” and so it gains us a “Hey? You know, I would not send it to you if I did not have some comfort with it.”

Mark Samms: Yeah!

Carl: “Or by getting all the list owner, I think you are okay to look at it and once you get Americans not for you, fine, they will buy it.

Mark Samms: Yeah! Definitely and I get that as well of myself because when I first started building my list, I think what I did is not just for “Okay, let me go and get join a lot of different affiliate programs” I build this, this is I did. I (31:32) the affiliate swaps, I fill an order to follow up sequence, the first swap is day one, day two, day three and I have about 40 different affiliate offers and it started off, it feels so good so I don’t wait to drive traffic that works that way I could to drive traffic originally, my leads funnel and then come in and then see these different offers and I make a few sales.

The one I started to know is just that after say; the 10th day the open rates and click per rates went (32:02) to nothing and there was no consistency there and I was like “What is happening? Why is this happening? What can I do?” and I thought about the purchase that I am taking the person for. I put myself in their shoes and I thought, how do I feel when I just get offers, offers, offers from these people that is sending me stuff and I just start to ignore them and if you look at my, like you say the e-mail that you put out of your – that you subscribe through (32:30) with, I have got 83,000 emails in there. I am just looking at it right now and lot of the emails have not been opened. These have not been opened and then when I look at one that have been opened, it is all from people that add value, like I can see, I am scrolling through them, I am just looking at it right now and I can see like they are all from people that like for example (Richard Moore) and (Lee McIntyre), (Alex Jeffrey) just so mean all from people that I feel as part of their process that is adding some sort of values to me that make me feel that I can learn something and that make sense. So yeah! So then, so, I say “Okay, how do I add this value?” and I actually went out and I bought a course, I think it’s called “(33:15) on the Madness” and I actually spend the time, crossed them my story and talking about how it is important and the (33:26) on that person, how it relates to them and my story relates them, stuff like that and as soon as I did, it just started adding some real value and content into my follow up sequence.

I straight away noticed that my open rates went up, they started (33:40) of people that stay opened back on day 15 which think “Wow! That was interesting, different from anybody else” and then they went back and (33:48) from day one, so, my open rates started to creep up, my click rates started to creep up and my sales (33:52) do increase, so, adding value without a doubt is key so I agree of how do you possess them and the proof is in the pudding. Is that what they say? The proof is in the pudding?

Carl: Yeah! Exactly and I think the other thing too Mark you know, what I found is when I started sending some of the swaps, it actually bumped my open rates because it was something different.

Mark Samms: Oh! Yes.

Carl: And so you know, I saw probably a 15 percent increase in my open rates.

Mark Samms: Oh! Excellent.

Carl: When I started throwing some swaps in there, you know, what I have done in my list is I have three days a week that I will swap other marketer’s stuff and so basically my list knows if you get it on Thursday, Friday or Saturday, it may had not come from me and it is just something that I want to pass on but what I try and do in the rest of the week is add a lot of value and there is always an offer in the PS or there is always a place that somebody can take action but I run my list in cycle so I may go you know, three weeks out of month, get some added value and the one week that is just heavy pitch and then I may change that up to the next month. I maybe two weeks of pitch and two weeks of value.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: And so you know, I try to keep it fluid and moving and so you know that way the list does not just feel like it is always the same old thing, so, I am always trying to bring some new ideas, some fresher offers, some fresh training you know, you know back and front of them “Hey if you (35:33), you know I am using this strategy, here is a trick that I learned too and it work.”

Mark Samms: Oh! Okay.

Carl: You know, “Here is a new tool that I have just started using, here is my results, here is the link, you check it out through yourself.”

Mark Samms: Okay, cool, well, the good thing is that while we are having this conversation, a lot of the questions that I had pre-prepared, you are answering them already so I will ask you to sort of move on but then, one question, I will go ahead and hopefully you are open enough to be able to answer this question but if you do not want to feel comfortable in answering this question, just let me know. As you have been building your list, what would you say is the biggest mistake or errors that you have made while building your list and you have advised people not to do or advise people to be aware of these things that could come up. What would you say the biggest mistake you have already… you have come across?

Carl: Yeah! I think there’s a couple of a big mistake.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: The first one I talked about was where I begin building my list. I chose a market of people that do not spend money and I wasted a lot of time and so that was the first mistake, I built if I am on the wrong place.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: The second mistake is I did not read my story into my auto responder for a longest time. All I used was the account auto responder series for you know a system and it’s not that it did not work but it did not attach people to me and so you know even if there is an affiliate marketer, I still want people to value my opinion. I still want to be the guy that they take my recommendation over anybody else.

Mark Samms: Yes.

Carl: And so you know, that was the second mistake. I think the third mistake was I was someone in the (37:26) with my list.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: I was not giving them opportunities to engage me in webinars, in conference calls and to really gain feedback from 37:37 and you know when I began to you know put out pieces of content but said “I want you to e-mail me” I want you to – like I sent one out a few weeks ago and I was talking about “Defining moments in your life” and so I challenged all of my readers, I said “If this describes you today and you have decided there is no turning back, you are going to push forward no matter how painful it is, send me an e-mail. This says “No Turning Back” in the subject line; I had four people do that. what came out of those conversations was them saying “I am willing to do whatever you tell me to do, what products do I need and how do I use it?”

Mark Samms: I see, so you do basically (38:26) by just interacting.

Carl: That’s it and I think that is part of them Mark, we are in a social media world today.

Mark Samms: Right, very much so.

Carl: Part of the thing that I was not doing early on with my list. I was not pointing them back to my blog, I was not pointing them back to my Youtube videos, I was not pointing them to my Facebook fan page, I was missing out on so many opportunities to engage and reinforce my marketing message apart from that email because if I can get them to go look at the blog, they are going to again be presented with all the things that I am all about one more time and if I can engage them on Facebook, now, I become not just as marketer but they can read about me in home (39:17) my daughter, they can read about what trip I just went on, they can read about what I am cooking for dinner and I become a real person.

Mark Samms: Person.

Carl: Is that right? They can say “If this idiot can do it, I can do it too!”

Mark Samms: Do not say that! but I know what you mean, I definitely know what you mean and I can definitely trace that time where I became a fan of somebody where they were basically, expose something personal about themselves, where they have related me in such a way that is more than just kind of teaching me a technique, it’s just make me connect with them on the people or everyone. I can see, I can definitely trace back to some of my mentors and things like that where they have done that and that helped me to sort of become a fan of them and so on and so forth, so, I definitely can see how that helps and I guess that is how people with smaller lists can out be a people with bigger list because they spend so much time in building that relationship with their list and lot more people in that list is responsive and even when I look at sales swaps, and I look at certain sites of people’s list versus the average clicks some things like that like I know it can be excused because some people are just matching clicks and things like that but I have seen people that will go to (40:40) thousands of list but they are still generating like 50 to a hundred clicks and things like that and it is like “Wow!” and then but then you see if you work ten thousands of list and there is no one generating 50 to a hundred clicks, you know like, how comes? Like you should be generating ten times right now.

Carl: Exactly.

Mark Samms: But then it’s I guess some people might get lazy and they just send offers to their list now and (41:05) so it is still about the time you take for your list I think is very important and another (41:11) from when I realized to change that, I saw a big difference so I think that is very important to do that, so, just a recap on that because it can be important to people to know just what works but what not to what things to try to avoid. When we are talking about mistakes and errors, what Carl was saying is that he found that because he neglected to sort of sometimes get to interact with his list, to get maybe in some of (41:40) sort of (41:41) of webinars with his list or maybe even survey his list and then segment them and have different messages and tutorials in his list because he neglected to do some of those things, he lost the opportunities to connect to them on the (41:52) level which potentially has lost him the opportunity to really serve them better, so, now he is getting a lot more involved in interacting with his list in more than just the e-mail, so, it is like on his Facebook, on his blog, through webinars, through teleseminar, through interviews like this and things like that, so, exactly more of the (42:19) that you like.

Carl: Yeah and I think something else too Mark, we need to cover.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: Because it is a basic principle business, that that buyer is the greatest asset that you have because once that they have bought from you, chances are if you take care of them, they will buy from you over and over and over again and so you know, what does happened in my list is I have people that buy everything from me. I have anytime I bring on a new network marketing business. I work with the same people in multiple businesses because they trust me and once I secure of that buyer, I can make more money off of that buyer than I will ever make off of the first time buyer.

Mark Samms: Okay, yeah.

Carl: That repeat buyer is more valuable to me than anything else so if I do not take care of them, I really get throwing away the most valuable asset that I have.

Mark Samms: That is very important, yeah.

Carl: And so that is what allows me to effective you know, anytime I launch a new product, anytime I bring in a new company, you know, I send them e-mail out and these people are attached to me. They have decided that they trust me, that they are fans, that they trust my judgement, they see what I do and so they do not hesitate to pull out their wallet and get going and they will call and apologize that they can’t, you know what (43:40) is.

Mark Samms: Wow!

Carl: That is the kind of list that we all want I mean you know, I can have a hundred thousand people on list that do not ever buy anything.

Mark Samms: That is pointless, yeah! That is pointless.

Carl: Who cares? But if I have got you know 500 of thousands people who are buyers, who buy consistently, who buy over and over again. I can run in circles around marketers who have a list 10 to 15 times of theirs.

Mark Samms: Yeah, I completely agree with you and if have seen that happened a lot lately as well and so yeah, definitely that is a really good advice then. Guys, take heeds to what is being said here today because this is a really valuable information which is (44:30) information that things that we are doing right now, things that we gathered from our own experience of building a business online, so if you are starting out and you want to know what is working right now, this is sort of information that you need to listen to but more than just listening to, you need to work out how you can implement and take action on it within your business and maybe some of the parts are not just for you but what you need to do is to take out what works for you and take action on it and once you get it working, work out ways to (45:03) okay guys? So yeah, so you continuing on – we touch on a bit of that early when you are talking about segmenting the list and so on and so forth so firstly, I think we need to make them understand on what segmenting your list is but then why are you segmenting your list out, what is your point, what are you sending to everybody and why it is the same message for everybody, why would you segment your list?

Carl: Yeah! Let us get into that, you know there is really – there is basic segment which is your buyers and your non-buyers.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: And your reason for doing that is just what we talked about. A person who is already a buyer is more likely to be a buyer on any other offer you sent. Once they have broken the ice so to speak of pulling out their credit card and making that purchase. There is not the level of resistance to it because somebody else might (46:01) so that is you know the basic segment anybody should be making is know who your buyers are but then from there, you know, let us take a look at segmenting to a target market, you know my target market is network marketers who want to make money online and I throw them a weight loss offer. I am probably not going to get a good response as it is not what they are looking for.

Mark Samms: Yeah, very true.

Carl: But I have got a list full of people who are yo-yo dieters and desperate to lose weight that weight loss offer is going to go well but to make money from home offer might not go so well.

Mark Samms: Okay, yeah.

Carl: And so I see a lot of marketers doing this and not just in what they are sending in their list but even in their marketing so you know they will go buy paid advertising on a dating site and advertise and make money online opportunity and then they wonder why they get horrible results out of it. They feel like all they are getting done is wasting their money. Well they did not match up their audience to what they were marketing and I always like it into fishing and you know if I am going to get fishing for sharks, I do not go down to the river, I have to go to the ocean that is where the sharks are.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: And so you know what I have see a lot of marketers doing is they are throwing shark bate in the middle of the river and wondering why they are not catching anything. Well, number one there is no sharks there and number two fresh water fish can’t bite the bate, you know, there is just always reasons why it does not work and yet people are marketing that way. I mean you just see it crazy offers in crazy places and you go, you know “Who is thinking here?” it is common sense. If I am looking for people who are wanting to make money online, I need to go and find out where those people hang out and market there.

Mark Samms: Okay, yeah.

Carl: And at my list, it is built up of people who want to make money online, then I need to quit sending them offers, they do not 48:01 themselves to that purpose and so you know that is where list segmenting comes in, so, you know in my business, I have got a list for automotive enthusiast, I have got a list for people who want to look pretty, I have got list for people who are trying to lose weight, I have got a list for people who want to make money online and I have got a list for people who love network marketing and people who want to buy precious metals and so forth and so on.

Mark Samms: Oh! Wow!

Carl: And so they do not all get the same offers, they get different offers

Mark Samms: I just was about to ask you that, yeah. Does that mean that you sent a message in for each person for each proof?

Carl: Pretty much, pretty much I mean…

Mark Samms: Is that a part of (48:40) though?

Carl: No! It is really not and you know there is some of those (48:45) you can cross pollinate.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: and network marketers, at the end of the day wants to make money, so, I can send him a make money online offer because he just wants to make money.

Mark Samms: Yeah.

Carl: He is just using network marketing as a main vehicle.

Mark Samms: As a 48:58, yeah!

Carl: but with some education I can show him “Hey! This affiliate marketing, needs to be an important part of your business as well” or a CPA offer can be a funding mechanism for you know, what you are doing and so a lot of these is just educating your audience, you know, if you are going to send them something that is a little outside of the niche, as long as you can explain why you are sending it to them and help it make sense for them, they will respond to it.

You know, I did that in reasonably, I promoted a CPA offer to my network marketing list but I practiced it as here is a funded mechanism, so, you can go out and buy paid advertising for your network marketing business.

Mark Samms: Perfect, so yeah, sort of about the position, you are positioning that correctly, okay. That makes a lot of sense. One thing I have 49:53 is that I spend quite a bit of money I should say. Once I become a customer of somebody, I probably buy many of the things that that person has got because it personally take time for me to make that decision to be a customer of somebody but then once I make that decision, I probably love everything that they do offer, say for example (50:14), I love his work, I love his work process and things that have relation to list building.

I spend a lot of money there but it has been very beneficial to me as the website could (50:24) for yourself. In regards to books trainings or mentors, who have you found to be most helpful in your (50:38) speaking on the list building but in your business building efforts. Who do you found to be most helpful?

Carl: Yeah! I think there a couple of people that really come into that. Daegan Smith is a guy that I listen to non-stop; that guy knows how to market online and not just market online. He is extremely technical in markets online, he studies numbers, he can tell you internal investments and he can break out a spreadsheet for any campaign that runs that you know, that boggles the mind but he is good on what he does, I mean, so he is phenomenal, so anything Daegan sends, I pay attention to it. Rob Ford is another guy, I pay attention to him. He is a genius when it comes to search engine optimization.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: Within the network marketing (51:30) so anytime Rob, puts something out, I am paying attention, you know I am paying attention to David Wood. David Wood is not just a crazy, I mean you watch the guy then you are “How in the world does he sells stuff” you know I mean he will write a blog, post on (51:48) and he will make 10,000 dollars off that, you go, you know I do not get it but again you know watching him has taught me a lot about just being yourself and when you interject that, people are (52:06) to you so those three guys in particular. I pay a lot of attention to within the niche, so I pay attention to Mike Dillard for copy writing for you know attraction marketing.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: You know and then of course, guys like you know Frank Kern, for a just a science of marketing and you know really taking solid proven marketing concepts the people have used for years offline and you taking those into the online world and so those are probably the people that I all of the most, I tend to be a little more niche specific, so, the first three, are definitely the people I pay the most attention to.

Mark Samms: Okay, yeah, they were marketers as well. Okay, cool! Okay so yeah, that is good. I want people to get like a wide range of different people that are influential to the people I am interviewing because I think it is important to know the people (53:11) who listen to as well. I am just thinking about for the questions that I have gotten and a lot of the questions that we have gone through have been answered already through our conversation which in my opinion maybe we had a good interview where we have an interview where you answered the questions beforehand just as naturally as we go along which is that really cool. So, in regards to things like somebody is just starting out and it is their first month of marketing, now that you sort of been it for a little while now, you have been building your list, you have been building your business online, if have you have to give some advice to somebody, what would be the advice that somebody that is just starting out, knowing that you have been there for awhile but they are finding that they are not getting the right results. What would be the advice for that person in regards to helping them get a jumpstart into getting some results that are tangible?

Carl: Yeah, I think I really have to….

Mark Samms: Okay, great!

Carl: You know the first one is there are so many different ways to make this work. I have friends that make all their money doing nothing but hanging out on Facebook all day.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: I have friends that make all their money doing nothing but making Youtube videos, I have friends that make all their money with paid advertising, I have friends that make their money even of the things like traffic exchanges, you know, and so I think the first thing you do is you dig what is the method that most fits your personality okay, so, if I do not want to talk on the camera, Youtube is probably not my thing. If I do not want to hang out in Facebook, that is probably not my thing but if I like to write, you know if I like to create other types of content, then maybe that is what I need to do or if you know and I always kind of (55:21) with this. Anybody starting out, you have two choices, you need o spend time or you can spend money. You have to decide which one you want to do. You can make money doing either one, in the end you probably do both.

Mark Samms: Yup!

Carl: But you know a lot of people, the truth is Mark, they come into our arena because they are backs against the wall, they have lost their job or something has fallen apart or they are (55:47) retirement, they do not have a (55:48) way or you know, whatever it is, kids being braces, daughter is getting married, who cares what it is? But the truth is a large majority of people enter into this realm because they are backs against the wall.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: So you know I have got idea of the poverty mindset when I first get here and say “You know what? You can’t think like a broke person.

Mark Samms: Okay.

Carl: You have to think like a successful business person, so I think part of that conversation is you pick what fits your personality. What is going to let you shine through the most and then let us craft what that strategy looks like once you kind of put your thumb on and “You know what? This video thing, I think I can do that” great! Now let us bring in the tools and the training that are going to help you become the best of it but second to that is just like there is a (56:45) of tools we can get into. There are also tens of thousands of gurus out there. They all have successful ways to make money and quite honestly, most of them are very legit, so the problem is we tend to get like all shiny balls (57:03) the fact that the next shiny things that comes along, we get to (57:07) it, instead of sticking with the thing that is most effective for us so the second thing that I tell people is pick your guru. Pick one or two people that you want to follow and then make pattern yourself after and ignore everybody else.

Stay focused because it is that focus that will actually get you the greatest amount obstruction the quickest, if I can focus, so, when I get a new person online, teams in network marketing, inevitably they say “Well, I want to do what you do, because you know you do not chase people, your phone rings, you answer and then people sign up.” I say “Well, that is great! But you did not see the last three years of blood, sweat and tears that make that possible”

Mark Samms: What do they call that?

Carl: Pay on the price ma’am!

Mark Samms: 365 days overnight success.

Carl: Yeah! So it is you know it is that helping people understand, yeah, it is great once you get here but you got to lay the foundation.

Mark Samms: Oh! Definitely, yeah.

Carl: I always tell them this “Pick your strategy and focus on it so you have got it mastered. Once you are a master of it, once you are just generating leads and making sales, then grab something else and start playing with it, but find one thing and become a master of it and make it work.” And once you have done that, two things happen, you are now an expert in something and when you are an expert in something you can differentiate yourself from everybody else and number two, once you have that going you can somewhat automate that process and then take on a new strategy for yourself and so you know we always evolve and developing in what we are doing so for me blogging has been the backbone of what I do.

I finally came to the point where I realized “You know what? I can pay somebody and come up with a lot of these stuff “and what I would rather spend an hour of my time everyday, thinking of somebody to write or what I would rather pay a writer ten bucks to just write something for me and spend five minutes putting it on my blog and at the end of the day I am still going to accomplish the same outcomes but now I have just saved an hour of my time and so you know, we evolve as the cash flow picks up as we come a little more sophisticated in what we do as a business owner.

We begin to safe places where we can streamline that process but I think my caution to anybody watching this is when you start out, you can’t start out where the guy you are watching is that is just you are not there. Accept that and think your strategy, become the expert in it, then pick your guru and ask strategy or listen to everything they say, become a student and follow their footsteps and into me that is the quickest way to get up and running, and do not jump.

Products, you know, it commit yourself. I would go to the place that I see most people fail Mark, is they lack commitment to what they are doing and they are looking for the next quick fix and if they will just pick a profitable product that has good sales volume, has good marketing, good training, whatever else is involve in there, pick a guru who is an expert in their strategy of choice and pick a strategy that fits who they are personally. They would make so much headway and instead you know people will spend you know a year or two years, just jumping program to program, looking for the easy button, you know? What is the thing that I can just sign up and all of a sudden money just shows up in my bank account, it would not happen that way.

Mark Samms: I am a perfect example of that.

Carl: Yeah!

Mark Samms: I was since seven years, really just messing about online, jumping from these, jumping from that. Yeah! Very much I see exactly what you mean and then when I just when my back was against the wall and I have made it done then and I had to make things happened, that is when I focused in, I worked what I need to focus on and I started to grow my business and I basically tuned out in everything else that is relevant to me being successful so I see exactly what you mean, that makes a lot of sense.

Carl: Sure! You have got a good example, you know you are there in the UK and you just had the Olympics there. Think about those runners, I mean you know if they started to look at around at the stadium and everything going on around them. They do not win any medals.

Mark Samms: Very true.

Carl: Because they don’t start showing, they don’t finish (1:01:44), they don’t run (1:01:45), because they are distracted and we have to be the same way in our business. I mean we just really have to have a laser focus and so you know what? I have got to get to my goal, here is the best way for me to get there and I am going to ignore every other distraction that comes along. I do not care if it is more profitable, I am going to master this and what people do not realize is that they will master the fundamentals, if they learn their craft then you can get take on any business you want to and you can repeat the same results over and over and over again, so anytime I joined the network marketing business, it is not a question of whether I am going to build a team, it is how quickly as they are going to get built because the faster the fundamentals, when I pick up any affiliate product, it is not the matter of if I am going to sell it, it is how much I am going to sell this quick because I have mastered the fundamentals.

Mark Samms: I see it completely, that makes a lot of sense. This is really, really good interview. I thank you so much for coming on today.

Carl: Thanks Mark.

Mark Samms: And just spending your time with us, if anybody that is listening to this now, if they want to know, get to know more a bit about you and what you do, obviously I am going to put links on the site and stuff like that and I will put them on the page and stuff like that but if they want to know anything about you, how to follow you, how to get in touch with you, what do you (1:03:15) and then what links and stuff would you want them to follow you.

Carl: Everything in my marketing world revolves around me, so, the central (1:03:26) everything I do is carlwillis.com and that is my personal blog you can connect with me through, you can get cost, you can get all my list, you can do anything you want to do that engages me from that one location.

Mark Samms: Okay, so that is www.carlwillis.com,

Carl: Yes.

Mark Samms: Okay so carlwillis.com, okay and that is called blog and you will be able to see what sort of stuff he is putting up there in relations to his content and things like that. Join his list, follow what he is doing and interact with him really, so Carl, thank you so much for coming on today it has been a pleasure and what I love about this session is that, obviously, I have gone about my marketing in certain way and because of that I have learned my way but then speaking to other people, introduces me to different things, just little things that I did not know or I knew but forgot about and I have been 1:0438 lately, so, I have been taking notes myself and I am going to be listening back to this interview myself and taking more detailed notes with things like new things I need to be applying into my business as well, so, it is really cool, just communicating and talking with you because obviously, we get to learn so you have to learn so much and like it was really grateful that you came on and spent a little bit of time with us and I hope it will be a benefit to everybody that gets to listen to this call, so, guys that is it from us today and we will see you in the next interview. You take care!

Carl: Thanks Mark.

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