Mark Samms: Hello hi James
James Scholes: Hi, how are you doing Mark?
Mark Samms: I’m very good, hi everybody, it’s Mark Samms here from the renegade affiliate team, today we’ve got another exciting interview with a gentleman named James Scholes, he’s from Leeds UK and he’s going to be talking about his journey through building a business online and what he was doing before that and really giving you some insights and tips into what it takes to be successful and build a business online in today’s world. So James, how you doing?
James Scholes: yes not too bad, the weather is a bit cloudy today but apart from that great.
Mark Samms: that’s Britain for you isn’t it? So James, let’s get into the meat so that people can get value out of this. The first thing I want to go into was… obviously you are an online marketer now and I believe you are full time online marketer now, is that correct?
James Scholes: yes full time
Mark Samms: ok so before you started building a business online, can you give me a bit of an insight on what you were doing beforehand and what sort of led you into pursuing a career online?
James Scholes: yes sure Mark, well I came into this about 2006 and I wanted to pursue it but before that, I had quite a few other jobs. To be honest, I dropped out of a lot of college courses, I had a load of dead end jobs, I was about sea level and that’s about it. And basically, I was in a building job stacking shelves, I used to think, there must be a better way of living life than this. So I went to Google and I typed in the words “how to make money online” and that’s how my journey started from there really. It wasn’t easy because there is a lot to learn and there are a lot of minefields.
Mark Samms: I can imagine, because if you typed in how to make money online, you must have come across a ton of information and it must have been very confusing
James Scholes: well it was overwhelming at first and you’ve got to try and find the good eggs compared to the bad eggs and unfortunately, there are more bad eggs than there are good eggs out there, you see.
Mark Samms: so how did you go about deciphering between good information that was gonna actually add value and help you build your business and information where it seemed like it was going to add value but really it was a pipe dream, there was nothing in it. How did you sharpen your edge to understand what’s good and what’s not?
James Scholes: Well I went into this with the view that I wasn’t going to make any money online. I went into this thinking I’m going to be setting up an online business and I realised that there was a lot of stuff out there that promised you instant return and I knew from the get go that was impossible. So I always looked for courses or people to teach me with realistic goals. These courses where they promise you $16m in 10 seconds we know they don’t work whatsoever. You’ve got to really wake up and know that is not real. And I’m not very talented in a lot of things but I did enter this game with a realistic view of how this kind of operates. I knew it wasn’t going to be an overnight thing.
Mark Samms: the question I want to ask you then is, so obviously you came into this and you knew straight away that you weren’t gonna listen to things that sounded too good to be true and you tried to look for solid guidelines and structured information, real business information that gives you real implementation type of action. What it is about your background, because there is a big market out there that buy into all of this free section of click riches… so what is it about your mindset and how do you think people need to be looking at things so that they don’t get duped. Is it something about your background where you had to be quick on your toes, be street smart. What was it about you that made you decide things quickly and work out the real from the fake?
James Scholes: what it boils down to was that I didn’t want to be embarrassed or humiliated by my friends and family. If I’m gonna go into this, I’ll have to put my all into it because I remembered I told my dad and I said “dad, what I’m thinking of doing now, because I used to do all this, crazy stuff to make money, I’ve done a gazillion things. From a very young age, I used to sell video games at primary school, I used to draw some pictures, print them and sell them at 10p, I wasn’t a millionaire but I probably got that business mind inside of me which helped later on down the road in internet marketing but the thing is, I didn’t want to tell my friends that I was thinking of making money online, because a lot of people perceive, everybody outside the internet marketing community think it’s a pipe dream, they think it’s impossible. So I kind of didn’t want to chase this and think oh I look like an idiot to my friends and family.
Mark Samms: ok so I understand so what was the first thing that you started doing when you thought ok this makes sense, I’m trying to get some success here, get some results, what was that?
James Scholes: well first of all, I wanted to find somebody who was reputable and for anybody I would recommend that if you find somebody and do tons and tons of research. That’s about it really and that’s what I did. And I found somebody who kind of came through 99% of the time and it wasn’t a lot of bad things. Now don’t’ get wrong, every marketer out there, they’ve been out there for long enough, there is going to be somebody out there badmouthing them. So nobody is a 100% squeaky clean but if the 90% of the thing you read is generally good, than that is a good starting point.
Mark Samms: ok that’s good so the first thing you want to do is find like a mentor basically who has a good reputation you can learn from. Once you found that person what is the next step?
James Scholes: next step is basically just picking one of their courses if they have a super course, a lot of these mentors have plenty of courses but you’ve got to find a course that suits you and there are plenty of things to do online to make money as you will know. There is affiliate marketing, there is list building, there is product … You can go into SEO there is literally a gazillion ways to make money.
You’ve got to find what your way of making money is. For me personally the way I was meant to do to create a product in small little market and then build lists and I got into it and I found my thing. I tried the SEO which I’m ok with SEO but I’m better with email
Mark Samms: so excellent, so that leads on nicely onto the next question. In relation into you getting your first people on your list, like say your first 1000 people on your list, what were the first things that you did?
James Scholes: Well when you say the first 1000 people, I did on my list. I wasn’t selling internet marketing material at the time. I was in another market at the time.
Mark Samms: what sort of market?
James Scholes: well basically, this is what I advise anybody to do. I entered a market which was a lot smaller than the internet marketing market and it was basically a micro niche within a PC niche, it was basically a method what a lot of video games call “overclocking” where they speed up their hardware? I was a fountain of knowledge, I was a geek into that kind of things so what I did I created a product I wrote like a report like a 50 page book on it on a pdf and basically I went online and sold it and it was only a year after selling it that I started realising I better start building a list
Mark Samms: can I take you back a second there because obviously you said you went online and you sold it. That just sounds like great I went online and sold it! This was back in 2006 right?
James Scholes: yeah.
Mark Samms: ok when you say you went online and sold it what was your thought process going into selling it online, what did you actually do? If you don’t mind that kind…
James Scholes: no not at all Mark, the thing is it’s totally changed since 2006. I know it’s only a few years ago but what I did I followed the instructions that I got in the course and then created the product
Mark Samms: so just to make sure that everybody understands. This was when James did this in 2006 what he’s saying is that the market place has changed and what you did then it probably won’t be as effective right now so what we are talking about now is history here so don’t take this as this is what you’ve got to do now we’ll get some more up to date stuff as we continue
James Scholes: well back then when I did this, I wouldn’t recommend doing this because it probably won’t work as much but what I did was: when Google AdWords was really cool, you would sell products which-I don’t know if you know this Mark, which I think you will do – but you know it’s a pain this Google AdWords to get things approved and things. Back in 2006, they were very cool with everybody, you can sell your own product, it was really easy but it allowed me to get traffic, I paid for the traffic to go there and then I could just go straight to the sales perch. It was really easy back then in fact, I had a lot of … I wouldn’t say a lot of luck but I took what I learned and actually implemented it.
Mark Samms: ok so you actually took action on what you’re doing. You went to Google AdWords, you set up a Google AdWords account and you selected keywords related to computer “clocking”? “Over clocking” And found a tons of keywords and you drove traffic to your sales page
James Scholes: yes
Mark Samms: ok excellent that’s so cool, did you have a squeeze page first direct to the offer, you either want to buy you read the page, you like it, you buy it see you later sort of thing.
James Scholes: Well for the first year, I didn’t bother building a list. Because although I was in the business to build a business, I did not see the long term value of building a list. Now this is a tip that you’ve probably heard a million times but I’m gonna say it: build a list because you are going to do tons of money doing that. And I learned that after a year of building a list. Because having a list is: having traffic on demand and its targeted traffic. If you want to send traffic anywhere, providing it’s an offer that aligns well with your list, you can send off that traffic and make money on demand literally
Mark Samms: ok cool so after that, and after the big Google shake up, what happened next for you?
James Scholes: what happened there I think it was about 2008 online 2009 or 2010. Basically I got a nice email from Google AdWords saying we don’t want your business we’ve suspended your account, we’re not gonna say why and you try to email these guys and they were non responsive to everything I was sending and that kind of threw everything into disarray. I have this product that is a 100% that solely survived on Google traffic, Google ad word traffic which I later learned that surviving on one traffic you are going to be doomed
Mark Samms: how did you feel when that happened?
James Scholes: I was distraught
Mark Samms: because you were living of that wage, weren’t you? You were living of what you were making right?
James Scholes: yes, I was building a PC empire with marketing funnels and it all relied on Google AdWords the entire traffic it was coming from, we were doing really well out of it. I was spending – because I live in the UK – so I’ll try and put it in dollars it’ll probably be about $200 a week and I was probably turning over $1500 a week of this one measly eBook. When I created the product then I created a back end I created something called the extremer over clocker’s key which was basically an up sale and a down sale and basically the funnel was turning over that money but when I lost all that traffic I didn’t know what to do and at the time, I was also getting some traffic from YouTube and a month later they suspended that account. Now I did nothing wrong with that that was a totally a white account, it was totally legit, I made my own videos. The thing is with Google they can be cool with you one minute and then they call fall out that’s why you got to ALWAYS diversify your traffic
Mark Samms: oh yes definitively, wow, the impact of that because obviously… I can just imagine you’re in your job you’re making really good money from your job and then they come in to say this job is finished, that’s it you’re not getting paid, no more, that’s it finished. That must have been devastating I can’t imagine how what you would have thought. So how did you turn it around, did you feel like giving up? Where were you at after that?
James Scholes: well… emotionally, at one point I broke down in tears because everything we were doing wasn’t working. I knew I had a high converting product. I even put it on Click bank to try to get affiliates to promote it. I couldn’t get affiliates to promote it and I just basically played around. But I tell you one thing, through that struggle I got better through that bad time it made me a better marketer it made me better at email marketing it made me better at getting traffic because before when I was a big fat lazy guy just living of that, I got lazy basically because when you do well you get lazy and that is just the end of that really and I started learning free traffic methods and like I said before I started diversifying and what I’m doing now which is right up to date: one traffic method iv e got, if one dies, I’ve got a dozen of other traffic streams coming in just hitting away, there are all free traffic methods
Mark Samms: so through the frustration of what happened it forced you to go out and find multiple streams of traffic to drive to your offer
James Scholes: yeah
Mark Samms: yes that’s really cool, I understand that so obviously I don’t want you to give away all your secrets but what was some of the things you did to, how did you come across these different strategies reading just testing different things out what was some of the things you did?
James Scholes: Basically, it was part of my life at the time, I stayed in a lot I worked on it I went to a popular marketing forum if you don’t know it’s called the warrior forum. Everybody get to know it within a few months of entering internet marketing. And what I was looking for in forums was consistency, one method that kept being brought up and they kept saying yes that s a really cool way then I knew there was some truth in that. Because there are a lot of “here today gone tomorrow” offers and they were only brought up for a month and then they would disappear. One way was to set up a YouTube account. I ended up setting up multiple YouTube accounts. Because I’ll give you a tip on YouTube, it doesn’t matter how good you are especially if you are in a ever green massive market like internet marketing or weight loss or something like that , your competitors are always gonna flag your videos. And it doesn’t matter how legit, I started setting up multiple YouTube videos and started ranking them in Google then I started to do a lot of forum marketing, I started doing a lot of social marketing, tweeter, and the kind of traffic I was going for was free traffic resources. I didn’t want to go for traffic resources that needed to be touched up. Forum marketing traffic is something that you’ve got to keep doing every few days or every day. I wanted to set up and forget traffic. I was willing to do the work upfront. I’d work a full month but I know that traffic would just come in for years to come. And that’s what I was going for.
Mark Samms: wow that sounds really cool so obviously you set up all these traffic streams, these are the free traffic streams that you have and you were driving this traffic into I assume onto your opt-in squeeze pages right?
James Scholes: yes
Mark Samms: what would you say are the key elements of having a squeeze page or opt-in page that gets high conversions in regards to lots of people opting in
James Scholes: well to be honest Mark there are more than one feature there that is vital. One of them I would say is keep it simple, don’t over clutter it. I’ve seen some squeeze pages where it’s basically not a squeeze page it’s a website and they’ve loaded it vertically onto WordPress and there is too much stuff going on. What you want basically, what’s converting the best these days is a headline and an opt-in box, keep it really simple and don’t overcrowd the page. You want to kill this, a call to action a bit of sk— if you can do that and try to be fair with it, don’t just make up a load of…say if you have limited copies, actually be real with that kind of thing, then you can do countdown on your pages, with scarcity which really do help. But that will help even more once you’ve got a relationship with your list but I would recommend, if you want to learn to drive traffic always drive traffic to a squeeze page, don’t send it to an offer
Mark Samms: so straight away, send it to a squeeze page first of all so you collect the lead first
James Scholes: Every single time. If anybody tells you any different, I would just disagree with them. Everybody’s got their own style, but me personally everything goes through a squeeze page because I m getting more money per book for my traffic.
Mark Samms: just for people who may not know why they would do that could you just explain why you would send it to a squeeze page first of all what is the reason behind that
James Scholes: well what you can do, you can build affiliate websites, and what happens there so you can send traffic there, and then they’ll click on your affiliate offer and if they buy, you’ve made a commission. But if you send them to a squeeze page, and then you can instantly, as soon as they opted in, redirect them to a page offer straight away and you’ll make a commission there. So as you can see its pretty even steven but once they are on your list, you can build a relationship with it. And you can keep selling to them. And make more money per lead. You get more money per lead. So that’s why I always send traffic to a squeeze page. Because I get to keep the traffic.
Mark Samms: that makes a lot of sense that’s exactly what I do as well and for that same reason I build a real strong relationship with people on my list, I spend a lot of time in my follow up and offers I send to my list as well so it really does help. They say you need 7 points of contact with somebody to really understand you and to really build a relationship with them so I can see why that’s so important. Also, now that you’ve got these people on your list, what you do, how do you grab their attention to get them interested in what you’re doing? For example I’ve got an email that I’ve signed up to all my different lists in my scrap files and you d be surprised, over 100,000 messages have ended up in this book, it’s been going on for a few years. What I’m trying to say is how do you grab people’s attention? What is the first thing you need to do to grab somebody’s attention and then how do you get them to follow through?
James Scholes: well to be honest, not a lot of people are doing what I’m doing. I make videos and basically what I do I learned a lot from this Franck Kern, he’s like the guru nanak of the internet marketing community
Mark Samms: I love Frank
James Scholes: everybody loves Frank, you even said it yourself, his personality, you view him as a friend, I modelled a lot of my marketing of him, I went to see him in san Diego and I bought a $2000 course and what he taught me was basically be yourself and what I’m like, I send out videos and I showed him really cool stuff. So you want some traffic, well this is what I do to get some free instant traffic to my blogs and websites and offers. Be cool with him give him my personality, and people email me back all the time saying “hey man, your videos are really cool, I’m learning a lot and you can just do it nicely, a gentle plug to an affiliate offer or to your own and you come across a really cool guy and everybody loves you and you’re not being too pushy and then everybody’s got respect for you. You’ve got to remember that what you say Mark, I’ve got email accounts where they get hammered 100s of emails, people are just trying to sell you stuff but when you’re sending out videos people don’t look at your headlines anymore, they don’t look at my headlines, my email subscribers they look at my name, so when they see my name, it says James Scholes they think “oh I’ll open that” because 98% of the time he’s got a really cool video that’ll teach me something cool and that will help me make money and that’s how I stand out. People just see my name and click it.
Mark Samms: I can attest to that because people like Rich Jeaffron Frank Kern they when they send information out I always know that even if they are sending something the way that they are gonna sell that to me they gonna drop some really good nuggets on me some really good information on me talk some sense about business thats gonna help the way that I think about things and really just help me in my day to day they say things that I do in my relationship in building my business, once they’ve build that relationship with me you can look at my inbox and you’ll see there is loads of unopened emails and then you all see who interestingly were.. you know it changes colours as you’ve opened certain people and just because the way they market it, they always got something interesting to say or they’ve always got an angle that intrigues me and I want to know what they are doing what they re up to and potentially if it’s something that is in line with what my goals are and what I’m trying to achieve then I’m gonna buy it. I don’t have a problem with buying small products, if it’s in line with where I’m going I think that’s key as well. Maybe you could talk about that as well. Because you said you wanted to build a business so obviously you’ve got clear goals and a clear plan, maybe could you go into the importance of having a clear plan?
James Scholes: I’m not the most organised person in the world. I kind of have a massive white board and I have a to do list and I kind off tick things of as I go along kind of thing but
Mark Samms: it still a system
James Scholes: I write down every day, I’m looking at it right now and I think what I need to do. Because if you write down what you need to do for the day, you more likely that you gonna do it because it will bug you so you’ve crossed it off and apparently, due to human psychology, people are more prone to remember unfinished jobs than they are to remember finished jobs and it kind of bugs people so it’ll be there and it’ll keep hovering over you so you write it down and you’ll take great satisfaction in crossing it once it’s done you’ll think iv e done that. It’s kind of a fun little buzz that you get once you’ve done it
Mark Samms: Yes, I definitively kind of agree with you there. One of the things I wanted to ask you there, obviously you say that one of the ways to keep attention is that you do videos. I’ve done quite a few interviews with a number of different people so far and it seems a recurrent theme that it’s more than just sending out emails to people it’s about interacting with them with different forms of media like through a video or podcast through webinars through teleseminars, it’s about trying to interact with people on a deeper level and it seems that’s the recurrent theme that I get from everybody I’m speaking to and sort of engraining within me how important that is, I just want everybody to understand how important that is. But one of the things I’ve noticed and it has intrigued me. Obviously, we’re both members of a website called safe swaps and I can see the size of your list but one thing is your click average is so high!
James Scholes: I don’t really do ad swaps and I don’t really buy solos but I sell the occasional solos but I’m going of your question here , the free traffic that I generate now I basically don’t need to do ad swaps. Ad swaps and solo ads are great to get you started but I did not like the fact, I didn’t want to build an entire business on them because I wanted to diversify but I didn’t want hooked on them? I came in into this business as like a lifestyle plan and I didn’t want to keep going back to the computer buying more solos or selling ad swaps because there is a lot of people doing search swaps and it’s a really cool site but I d say about 90% of people depend, all their traffic through search swap. And I think that is quite a bad thing to do. I think you should use search swap as an additional extra, don’t depend on it.
Now going back to what you were saying, how do I get so many clicks from my list? I do sell one or two solos basically, what I do, is I build up an absolute killer auto responder sequence. I build up one for 3 to 6 months and all I do I just jabber a lot of rubbish and I teach people how to make money online for free and people open their email
Mark Samms: is that through videos?
James Scholes: that’s all through videos because you’ve got to remember: let me put it this way, if somebody emailed you and said I’m going to kill you. How do you take that? You don’t know,
Mark Samms: it’s definitively going to impact me; I’ll be like what the heck??
James Scholes: but if you saw it, or heard an audio, I’m gonna kill you and you think is he joking or is he being serious but when you see it on video people get to see if you joking if you’re having a laugh its almost if like you’re in their living room and you are building up such a stronger relationship through the video, video is the key for me personally the building up killer relationship and you become their friend, if you give out good content and if you are having a laugh making the video and you just be yourself and I’ve got quite a quirky personality people get it and enjoy it and I’m teaching them something cool in the process. People will open your emails like crazy so if you are building an email list what I recommend is to build an absolute killer auto responder sequence and people open your emails. I promoted something the other month, it was for a Click bank product and I sent it off and I got up the next morning and this is through me putting that additional effort for creating a 3 to 6 months long auto responder sequence and I woke up the next morning and I had made $1500 and I went out in the pub and I thought I m gonna make $500 or something, but I got up the next morning, red eye in my underpants and I looked at the screen and I thought well I had a good day and I’ve been out all last night and thats through building up an absolute stellar relationship with your list.
Mark Samms: don’t just listen to this and think oh that s a really good idea, you really need to think of some sort of strategy, a way to do this. How do you find, how do you come up with ideas, I’m completely throwing out the questions that we had because this is flowing massively
James Scholes: we keep coming back, I love it. I love talking about internet marketing
Mark Samms; great stuff, how do you come up with the ideas on what to make your videos on, talk to me
James Scholes: a lot of people come into the internet marketing and…
Mark Samms: but how do you do that if you are brand new and you are not actually an expert obviously you’ve got some expertise now but if you re brand new, because a lot of people on my list are brand new I just want to angle it for those people please
James Scholes: well if I was brand spanking new this is what I would do and this is what I did whatever you do, don’t go into the main commodity niche, you want to go and find a smaller niche that you can dominate that you can become an authority figure in and you want to find something that you’re passionate about like I did about speeding up computers because I was right into gaming I couldn’t even type at the time but I loved gaming and I could tweak my piece ear and turn it into a Ferrari and I enjoyed writing the report, I enjoyed promoting it and I enjoyed advertising it because it was something I was absolutely passionate about and thats what I would recommend. Don’t go into the make money online niche, find something that you’re good at, might be a smaller market, you’ve got to have a burning desire, if you can find a hobby, find what your hobby is, I would say that not every hobby is profitable but a lot of them surprisingly are. Because I didn’t think of this, but it was a really weird sub culture, because if you check out a lot of the click bank guys and they tell you how to find profitable niches, you’ve got to have products on it, they’ve got to have people promoting it on AdWords, nobody was doing it, nobody was selling it so if I follow their advice I would have thought I d be wasting my time writing this book and I better go into another market but I didn’t get access to that kind of information when I was doing all this so thankfully I went into this a bit more blind, and I was making a lot of money so the bottom of this what I m basically saying go into something that you are passionate about. Because if you are passionate about something, you will put so much more effort into it and it will show in your work in your advertising and you will actually love what you do for a living that s what I recommend don’t go into make money find something that you’re passionate about and your passion will reflect in your work.
Mark Samms: I can definitively attest to that because it’s a lot of what I did to come up as well but this is so not about me, this is about your information and I’m really loving this is pretty really good stuff so in your journey you came across something and put together something and you done really well you had a bad spot where Google shut you down and through that you came out of that in a way where you were able to obviously still keep things going and you actually became a better marketer, what’s the deal now?
James Scholes: what I’m working on right now, basically I’m now with the over clocking business the pc stuff now thats just run passively in the background but what I’m focussing on now
Mark Samms: so that still makes money??
James Scholes: that still makes money not as much as it did do before but it still ticks over passively because I went with the viewpoint that I went in, I wanted to have traffic where I would sit and forget if you remember me saying it
Mark Samms: very much so
James Scholes: basically that traffic is still ticking over like I said it’s not ticking over as strong as it was before but it still a nice little traffic, income stream that trickles in, that goes into one of my Click bank accounts you see and it’s nice to have that but what I m focusing on now is probably more in the internet marketing niche and the reason for that is because there is more money in it ok?
Mark Samms: ok
James Scholes: I just want to say to everybody when I say there is more money in it, I wouldn’t recommend like I was saying earlier don’t go into it because if you know nothing about it you really got no right in teaching it and when I went into the internet marketing niche, I knew a lot of things, a lot of people come to make money online niche knowing nothing and they don’t know how to do keyword research, so I made a video on keyword research , they didn’t know about forum marketing so I made a video on forum marketing and show them some neat little tricks, that s why a lot of people have no idea what to create videos about because they are in the wrong market, you get what I’m saying Mark?
Mark Samms: yes very much so, because if you are passionate about the market you are into then you are already part of the community you are already seeing what the pains are within that industry so you know what sort of problems to solve and issues to bring up what sort of things to cough the whole market place in and you can bring up something on that, I completely get where you’re coming from there. When it comes to your emails is there any like set structure like in regards to short copy or long copy or would you say you just go with the flow, what’s your…
James Scholes: …my take on that, right it varies it depends on what your mission briefing is basically. If you’re promoting a one off product and if the one off promo you really want to keep it as short as possible just keep it a couple of lines a sentence like a sentence or 2 and then a link and then some more email copy below it, ok, thats what I would normally do but if you are running your own launch then you can send emails out providing it tells them what they want you want a caught out of fluff, you want to put in personality, your own personality I try to be funny because thats what I am naturally I m kind of easy going kind of guy and I try to pull that into my email copy but you want to keep it as short as possible and just get to the point with everything because I have one guy who I’m mentoring at the moment and Jesus Christ, I love him to pieces he’d written a newsletter and it’s like a big load of text, nobody’s gonna read that especially in the big market the making money online the weight loss and things like that, like you were saying, people are getting bombarded everyday with 100s of marketing emails do you think anybody’s got time to read a big block of text?
Mark Samms: mmm ok, I just want to play devil’s advocate here just because I see what you mean, I definitively can see that, because I’ve done a lot of testing and I can see that short copy gets you a large number of clicks, but I’ve also seen that for example I’ve got a follow up sequence where the messages are quite long but the story or the journey my life in regards to the things that I did and I related to the people that are on my list how they can use there from my experiences, in regards to building their business and some of the emails are quite long, and one thing that I have noticed is that what people do, they might come onto it on day 7 or day8 and they got back and they open up from day 1 and read through all of it because the story is so in depth, what are your thoughts on that because obviously , I see what you are saying it’s always good to keep it short and sweet but then what about the relationship building side of things
James Scholes: that’s all done in the video for me
Mark Samms: aaaah keep it short in the email, I mean you do the story through the video I think I might be better if I switched to that, actually give a short overview and then a link and then actually do the full story in a video
James Scholes: you can do both but I don’t myself I guess you can do both you got to remember not everybody, people learn different ways
Mark Samms: very true
James Scholes: some people are readers some people are watchers, I’m just making it up here but you get what I mean some people like reading some people like watching videos some people like listening to audio, I tend to attract the watchers the people who like the videos because thats my style of marketing but don’t get me wrong there is people out there, I mean the best way to make sure, is literally to cover for every market, so you can write down your story and also link to the video where you can tell it
Mark Samms: like a hybrid type of method
James Scholes: yeah so you are covering everybody so that everybody s gonna get it one way or the other
Mark Samms: mm very true, ok this is something I just want to overview because I think it’s important for people to understand that as well through your journey what would you say would be the biggest mistakes or errors that you’ve made while building your online business and with regards to the people who are listening, some advice to make sure that they don’t go through the same things.
James Scholes: well I think the biggest mistake I’ve ever made which I’ve already talked about is living off one traffic, I think that’s a massive one. There is a lot of people out there who make a tons of money of affiliates, they have a product and they solely rely of affiliates but I’m not being funny but affiliates are fickle people they will go with you until something better comes along, I had a product where I had lots of affiliates for months and then they have been there for a month or 2 or even shorter than that and they just jump on the bandwagon to the next hot product and thats just the way they operate so one big thing is never rely on one traffic thing always go out there and get more traffic to your website. Another thing that I should have started building my list sooner, you’ve got to build up a list, if you want to be successful, a lot of people will go I don’t want to build a list but it’s like the ultimate safety net in your business, if anything goes wrong you’ll always have your list and you can always rely on it, providing you look after them and you give them content and you’ve got a good relationship with them you can always turn to them and those guys on your list will help you out.
Mark Samms: ok thats good, thats really good information in there, in regards to the offer that you send out to your list and the free content that you send out, have you got a strategy behind that, for example, how often do you send offers to your list and do you mix it up with sending offers with no obligation just valuable content, obviously I know you do but I’m saying, but do you say to yourself, ok I want to send 3 bits of free information and then I send an offer and then 4 more bits of free information and then an offer or just as and when you feel?
James Scholes: well like I said before the auto responder takes care of the relationship building and it takes care of the free content side and I tend to mail a paired offer every other day so they probably get an email of me, I’m constantly changing and evolving my email marketing so what might work very well today might not work a year down the line but what’s currently working for me is that and emailing a paired offer or a free offer but you’ve got to opt-in for it every other day and thats currently working but like I was saying though, it’s the auto responder that does all the relationship building and sharing the free content thats probably the key to my success for getting really high opening rates because you’ve got to remember that people are going to say your name, “oh he sends out loads of cool stuff and he’s a really great guy in his videos,” so an email spammer or a churner and burner what they do, they rely on their email subject line to get opened. I rely on my name to get opened, ok? You see where I m going with that? As people see my name and say oh its James Scholes, I’ll open that up because there is a good chance there’ll be a video in there teaching them some really cool stuff, but the churners and burners out there, they rely on their subject liners, if they’ve got a really good subject line and their offer is really in line with that particular prospect, say you need a traffic or you want to learn SEO and the churner and burner says “how to do SEO” get ranked in one minute for Google they’ll probably open it because is so well aligned with what they want otherwise they’ll won’t open your email because they haven’t got a good relationship with you
Mark Samms: ok that makes a lot of sense. Do you segment your list into different crews based on their actions if so why?
James Scholes: a lot of people out there have a good — list I don’t like doing that, I mean I separate my buyers, I mean I separate my list from my buyers so if somebody buys one of my products I move him and then and all they do they just get free content and I don’t send them as many paying promo, they only get certain paying promo offers which is once in a blue moon from me literally and these are really good products that are fully endorsed, I tend to send them more like sale swaps stuff, that kind of thing but going back to what I was saying a lot of people have a lot of lists but I don’t like doing that, I’m very lazy targeting with my marketing
Mark Samms: good stuff
James Scholes: so when people opt-in I know exactly what they want, I don’t want to be operating in 50 micro niches with the make money online niche market if you know what I mean
Mark Samms: too much hard work right?
James Scholes: it’s too much hard work, you have SEO, even back linking thats considered different, you’ve got affiliate marketing, then you’ve got product creation, conversions, you got split testing nuts out there, but they are lazy targeting list but I rather just build one big lazy targeted list and so I’ve become so well at marketing with that one list rather than spread myself too thin because I rather be a master of one than a jack of all trades.
Mark Samms: ok, so somebody coming in to it right now like obviously you said don’t just go into internet marketing, look for something that you are passionate about, what would be some advice that you would give to somebody who wants to start building a list in something that they’re passionate about, how would they go about that getting in some really targeted people on their list, how do they go about to getting some of that traffic?
James Scholes: a good place to start to get some free traffic, this is what I would do if I were a complete newbie and I were recommending some free traffic, what I would do, I would do some forum marketing and I would go into the forums and you know there is a signature box and what you want to do is put your link in there and have a call to action
Mark Samms: sorry, we lost a bit there so you have a signature box and what you want to do is put a call to action in there and then I lost you
James Scholes: sorry, what you want to do is participate, you want to find the biggest most trafficked forum in your market and you can do that really easily using alexa.com I won’t go into how to do it but if you go to alexia and then what you want to do is type in your market, so say it is underwater basket weaving forums and then what you want to do is type the Url and put it into alexa.com and that will tell you which forum gets the most traffic because what you’ll find, what I found in all the different markets and niches I’ve operated in, you’ll find that there is one forum that gets the lion’s share of all the traffic, even with the internet marketing, WarriorForum gets 90% more traffic than all the other internet marketing forums out there so why bother wasting your time on low traffic forums so what you want to do is find the most trafficked forum out there and start participating. Now the trick with forum marketing is this: and this is one of the reasons that you should go into a market or a niche that you are really passionate about because the more you put in the more you get out. So if you send posts that are really helpful, people are gonna see you or perceive you as an authority figure and once they’ve read your helpful posts, they’re gonna check out and say “oh he knows what he’s on about” and they’ll click your “sig” and it all start from there. And you won’t get a gazillion traffic to your website straight away but it’s a great way to start getting plenty of hits to your website and squeeze pages today.
Mark Samms: excellent, that’s some really good information. Your thoughts on guest posts?
James Scholes: what do you mean guest posts, you mean blogging?
Mark Samms: When you write articles and you have it published on somebody else’s blog, what are your thoughts on that, have you tried that, is it something that you’ve gone into?
James Scholes: you know what, I’ve never tried that, and it’s something I keep meaning to do but I just haven’t got round to doing it
Mark Samms: ok so we’ll leave that one then ok? That’s no worries. And also would you say that you are someone who is always learning always getting the information and if so what sort of training courses or mentors have you found have been really helpful in your journey?
James Scholes: my biggest one, I would always recommend Frank Kern, he teaches a lot in his course, but what I got from him, is relationship marketing
Mark Samms: ok
James Scholes: and to be honest, you can learn a lot from it, not just by what he teaches and free stuff, but how he teaches the free stuff ok? The courses go on the big deep psychological triggers the NLP tricks and things like that and he teaches you how he does it and you think, aah thats how he does it but Frank Kern is probably my number 1 guy who’s influenced me the most out of all the mentors
Mark Samms: excellent, and that’s the same with training courses?
James Scholes: to be honest, I haven’t bought a lot of training courses, I don’t really buy a lot of kit, what I do now, I’m at a point in my business where the only thing I spend money on now, if I need a bit of outsourcing, products wise, I probably buy plug-ins and things like that or if I need to learn a new traffic method I’ll probably go to the warrior forum and then just look for something like a new traffic product, the trick with the warrior forum with the WSOs which stands for warrior special offers, what you’ve got to do, there is a bit of scamming going on, to be honest but the first lot of comments that go off there, a lot of their buddies are commenting on there, what you want to do is start reading from page 2 of the comments because thats where the real comments start coming in
Mark Samms: yes definitively
James Scholes: but I’m just at that point where I might buy micro courses on a very precise, generally a lot of it, is traffic
Mark Samms: ok cool, and what would you be your number one product they put it together and they are trying to get some JV partners, how they go about that?
James Scholes: oh my god, that’s one of these things that really hard to do but if I’ve found my own way of doing it, but I think that way of doing it, is approaching a complete stranger out of the blue and basically “ebegging” him as I call it, would you please promote my product, and I look at the poor guy and I think, there was one guy on search box and he just basically said: hi my name is bibble bubble and please don’t report me, I m looking for people to promote my product, don’t report me and I thought I didn’t know how to feel, I felt sorry for him, but that is a really bad way of approaching people out of the blue, ebegging them and just say “can you promote my stuff”. The way I do it, I take on my list, I promote my list, because every time I send content out to my list, what I do add a little link at the bottom of the video, or bottom of the page, or the video that they are watching, and it basically says: “how would you like to earn 200% commission instantly to your PayPal account, just click here to find out”. So I basically promote, I basically get my own list to promote my own stuff ok? Thats what I do and that goes with my auto responder business model once again I send out pages of quality content and basically it’s just a link and loads of people click on it thinking well I need to make money online, this looks like a really good offer and then they start promoting my stuff and thats it. And a lot of them go on sales swaps to promote it or they have like a blogs and they send traffic to it and things like that. I’m not a master JB but thats what I do and I like doing it that way because I’m not pestering anybody, so I get 100s affiliate hits now to my website each and every day and it kind of perpetuates, the more people I send through my marketing funnel the more people I recruit to promote my affiliates offers, thats what I do anyway
Mark Samms: Wow! that’s like, I don’t even know what the word to use for that, but you are not in people’s face, it’s very subtle
James Scholes: it’s a very cool way, it’s not even asking, it’s just saying it just sat there at the bottom of every page and its quality content and at the bottom it just says look 200% commission, instantly into your PayPal account, if you want to do it, just click here and I never once emailed my affiliates never once so it’s a really cool way, I didn’t want to build a business where I were constantly trying to recruit affiliates to promote my next new product but I don’t think that people came into internet marketing, I certainly didn’t to make money that way, we all wanted to basically set up a business online that runs itself and I don’t think that people recruit affiliates all the time for their next big launch, is that kind of business model, you constantly working to get more people to promote your stuff all the time. I have a mindset where I will say my business model is all about, if I can afford to go to Fiji tomorrow for six months then I have achieved what I wanted and I’m currently there. I don’t want to be on the internet every other day talking to affiliates and try to get them into the mood to promote my stuff; I rather do the method that I’m doing
Mark Samms: thats understandable and thats really good and I really like what you are putting forward its really in tunes with the life style aspect of internet marketing not necessarily working your ass off all the time. Right James I’m so grateful that you came on today, I know that you don’t normally do interviews with people so I definitively feel privileged and everybody on the course feel privileged that you’ve got someone that just like any other guy just a standard guy doesn’t class himself as a guru or anything like that, and literally does this day in day out in the trenches and he knows what he’s talking about. If anybody on my list want to get to know more about you and what you’re doing, could you give them some places that they can get in touch with you or follow what you’re doing?
James Scholes: yes, if you want to check out my blog www.james-scholes.com and you can pick out all my stuff there and I post all my videos there you can even spy on my style of marketing if you want and see how I operate and I d say it’s a really cool blog and I do try to give a ton of content and teach you guys as much as I can without pitching to you so check out my blog. Also
Mark Samms: ok let me get sure that everyone gets that, I’m gonna put a link click through anyway (spells out blog address)
James Scholes: thats it if you are a complete beginner and you’re after assistance where you can make money straight away and you’ve got no money and you want a 100% method to implement than you can check out a free system that I’m currently giving away and it’s called rapidcashsystem.net ok, thats a really cool system and its a system that I recommend to all people who are just new and starting out and want to make some money without spending any money if you know what I mean,
Mark Samms: cool, so that’s rapidcashsystem.net
James Scholes: I would have called it something else because after I called it that I realised there are a gazillion websites that are called something similar so make sure to put a link below for that one
Mark Samms: I will do yes definitively no worries so you guys can just click through and check that out. James, thank you so much for coming on today
James Scholes: you’re welcome
Mark Samms: it’s been a pleasure, if you pass this information to be of use to you, there all be some share buttons that links to videos or the audio, share with your friends if you find it to be useful, comment below get involved in it and also more importantly than sharing it and getting involved is anything that you thought you can take action on, actually implement it, take action on the information because there is no point having lots of good information and not do anything with it. So that’s it from us today, this is Mark Samms from the Renegade affiliate team and the staff today team and trying to say thank you again to James Scholes for coming on, take care people.