Mark Samms: hello, hi there Patrick
Patrick Batty: Hi Mark how are you doing?
Mark Samms: Good, I would just like to welcome everybody to the call. Today we have Patrick on the line and he’s gonna be going through some the things he’s doing within his business at the moment, really just giving some insights on what he’s doing right now that is working for him. So Patrick, thank you so much for coming on today, where about are you?
Patrick Batty: I’m in Cambridge, Ontario Canada, about an hour west of Toronto
Mark Samms: Ok excellent, and what time of the day is it where you are? Because it’s 4pm for me
Patrick Batty: It’s just after 11am here
Mark Samms: ok so we have a bit of time difference here
Patrick Batty: I’ve had my coffee and I’m awake
Mark Samms: You’re ready to go yes?
Patrick Batty: somewhat functioning today yes!
Mark Samms: (laughs) great stuff, let’s get started because I just want to get into the meat of the conversation and give us as much value as possible for everybody who will be listening, so the first thing Patrick where I really wanted to touch bases with you on it, just sort to get an idea of what you were doing before you started doing anything online, like what sort of work you were doing before that and then what happened to allow you to transition in to building an online business?
Patrick Batty: sure. No problem. First of all, I’m an old guy (laughs from both speakers) and I’ve been involved in the software world for almost 30 years
Mark Samms: wow ok
Patrick Batty: so I’m kind of been on it as long as Bill Gates and Steve Jobs just didn’t do quite as well as Bill Gate and Steve Jobs but other than that, just fine. Basically, I originally was technical. This is way back; I was technical as a programmer, many years ago and using tools and languages that don’t even exist anymore. So that whole technical thing is behind me, things like PO1 and colbon (guessed word) and all that. Eventually being a bit somewhat a greedy guy, I started to realize that all these sales people were coming into our company and they were driving these cars and seeming to have a good time and seeming to make a lot of money and they didn’t seem to working as hard as I was. And I thought, well I like to go into sales. And I did. So I ended up gradually working my way into a sales position with computer software for a company. Again, a long time ago. I started in a technical role and transitioned into sales. For a few years I really did very well, like obscenely well
Mark Samms: I was gonna say, that would make sense that you had done well because you had the technical knowledge, really engrained within you and all you had to do was to be able to express that as you were selling it so I can imagine you’ve done really well.
Patrick Batty: well surprisingly that’s not something most companies were looking for in sales people.
Mark Samms: no? (surprised)
Patrick Batty: it really wasn’t because a lot of times, having a lot of technical knowledge adds some barriers to you and for instance, again I was with a software company that sold very technical products but they typically would hire, instead of hiring technical people at the end of the road, they would hire guys that would be photocopiers sales people and things like that; because they were trained in sales and they wouldn’t try to burry the customer in technology. So I was inundated in that mindset.
Mark Samms: what made you different?
Patrick Batty: Well that was interesting. First of all, the training I had was really good, and really influenced me in terms of not trying to be too “techy”
Mark Samms: Ok
Patrick Batty: and really had me rely on technical people within my own company rather than me trying to be everything. So basically, I did know my role. And I really did try to focus on it. But the cool thing was at least I knew what was going on and knew the background and once in a while even if the technical guy didn’t know the answer, maybe I did. So it did help me out. But anyway I was fortunate enough to do really really well at it quickly and I ended up over a few years making quite a bit of money, was promoted, and spanning a period of 25 more years was running sales with a number of different software companies over the years. And a few years ago, I transitioned to a different company. I was recruited to a company and after about 6 months, they decided they didn’t want me there. So there you go. (Laughs). And that was my transition out of corporate world. And basically they didn’t want me and they pay me big bucks to go and work up there and they probably hadn’t planned well enough because effectively they really couldn’t afford it. And they were a very small start up. So I ended up leaving but at this point I’m in my mid fifties and I just decided then to take advantage of things that I’ve learned over time. When you are in you mid fifties and you are looking for a job, there is a good chance you’ll be looking for quite a while. It just seems to be the way it is. And this was again when recession was hitting fairly hard, it wasn’t too bad in Canada maybe not as bad as the UK or the US but it was still hitting. So I had already decided then to start in an internet marketing career hopefully taking advantage of some of the things I had learned through the years but I still had an awful lot to learn. So I decided to make my own job and make my own business as opposed to spend lots of time looking and I would still be subject to the whims of somebody else.
Mark Samms: just to get some clarification there, you said you decided to go into internet marketing, unless you know about it, you don’t know about it, if you know what I mean, how did you come across it, key words searches or…?
Patrick Batty: well you know, it’s a little bit hard to remember that now to tell you the truth, I may have come across the WarriorForum, I may have, I don’t know. I know, very early on, I ended up joining the Chris Fair training,
Mark Samms: oh excellent, of course!
Patrick Batty: you’re familiar with Chris?
Mark Samms: of course!
Patrick Batty: it was really good, I thought it was very good foundation training for me
Mark Samms: yes definitively
Patrick Batty: although I learned more about composer than I really wanted to learn (laughs from both speakers). This is before I knew much about WordPress for instance, but I quickly decided that when I’m building websites, I will not be using composer, I will be using WordPress. But I really found his training good, he’s very good, very easy to follow guy, very straightforward approach, he does wonderful videos. That was really my early days. But actually it’s kind of hard to remember what even got me going on internet marketing in the very first place. I apologise that I probably can’t remember that. But I think it might have been WarriorForum, and then everybody started buying everyday and picked up stuff from 1 or 2 of them but also wasted money with lots of them as well.
Mark Samms: ok, I understand. So you got into internet marketing. What were the first things you tried to do in marketing to get some results?
Patrick Batty: sure, I think the first thing was along the line of adsense related sites
Mark Samms: ah I remember these days
Patrick Batty: so it seemed pretty easy, you build sites and you build content and you get Google rankings and you make money. It seemed very straight forward at the time and to a certain degree it was, although I never really made a lot of money from it. I mean, writing content was fine, although again I’m not sure I would want to be doing that all day long but I did anyway. I built up a bunch of niche sites, did make some money but also quickly felt like there was more to this, and if I really wanted to make this big I’d be hiring outsourcers and getting a lot more articles written. I decided not to go down that path.
Mark Samms: ok
Patrick Batty: I transitioned then into some local services. At this point, I had done a lot of WordPress sites, I had done a lot of SEO type work and some of my SEO rankings were really good. And then I started looking into, well why don’t I offer the services to small business owners who clearly (even a technical guy like me or a guy with a technical background, some of that is harder to do)well clearly some business owners don’t have the time generally to do WordPress sites let alone all the work regarding SEO rankings.
Mark Samms: when was this? What year did you start this?
Patrick Batty: that would have been 2 years ago
Mark Samms: ok so was that sparked because you bought a course on local markets or something of that nature?
Patrick Batty: yeah… actually there was a small course that I bought that seemed interesting. I started doing it and I started trying it and I ended up selling some services quickly. Part of the initial stuff was around Google places and ranking was Google places locally. Now I am not into massive big cities like London but ranking with Google places was initially in small areas was not all that difficult. So I took some very competitive businesses. Once it may have been 4 or 500 people doing that business. A client of mine, I took him up to #1 in their town where they may have had, again, as I said, 300 or 400 people doing it. For instance an accountant: There are lots of accountants. To get a guy right up to number 1 who wasn’t even on the map before then… in fact I do remember this one client of mine, literally had a website that only had text on it. I mean text like no style sheet, no colour no anything!
Mark Samms: (laughs) like a word document!
Patrick Batty: I mean, I actually thought it was a mistake! Now he had a little bit of text but it didn’t show up anywhere in the search engine rankings and I called him and I said, I’m wondering if there is a problem there or is that what you intended. And he said, well I just don’t know how to do it. So I showed him a couple of websites and said I could do that to you but not only that but I could probably get you rankings fairly high in the search engine. First of all, in about 4 or 5 day, I had a really nice website for him, and when I say 4 or 5 day, with maybe an hour’s work a day.
Mark Samms: did you build that yourself for him or did you outsource?
Patrick Batty: I just used WordPress and I bought a theme that was fairly nice to start with and did all the customisation. It was a new theme to me so I had to learn how to use it. It was one of the elegant themes. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that. So I had to learn how to use the panels. But the cool thing is, within about 2 weeks, he was ranked #2 or #3 for accountant in his town, and then within about a month he was ranked #1 on the term accountant, the term accounting and the top 10 on probably about a 100 terms like talks and preparations. So it went really well. And the nice thing is that that kind of business is a total recurring business. I do a little bit of work every month for it and I have just automatic recurrent revenue. My search engine business tends to be around that, tends to be recurring, and tends also to gravitate to local businesses versus national although I do have a few national accounts as well.
Mark Samms: ok excellent, so you got your first client. You got your first keyword searches online, found a site you could actually add some value to them and then just gave them a call.
Patrick Batty: well there was a little bit more, actually I decided I didn’t want to be the guy doing the selling and in this case yes I did call but once I started doing the work I also had this wonderful brainwave: why don’t I hire some commission based sales people to actually sell the services.
Mark Samms: cool!!
Patrick Batty: and I would love to say it was an amazing success story but it really wasn’t. It seemed that I could sell the services but the people that I was training and hiring, they really struggle with it. So they sold a few over a few months but not enough to keep going. I mean I was paying them only commissions so clearly they have to make money if they’re not selling it they’re not going to make any money.
Mark Samms: then they’re gonna move onto something else
Patrick Batty: so in some cases they moved on and other cases I moved on because I didn’t think they were really doing anything in a few cases. So I thought that was really the path and for me it ended up not to be and it’s kind of ironic because, again, running sales with companies I’ve had, times when I’ve had 30,40, 50, 60 sales people working for me and yet here with a few who were working directly for me, we weren’t getting anywhere. So it was a little tough and I think that what we found was, selling services locally is not an all-brainer. Because a lot of business owners don’t recognise the value of it. They just don’t, they are so far removed. There’s maybe an auto mechanic for instance, and they get traffic phoning and coming in and maybe, for that matter, they have all the business they can deal with. It’s not an imminently scalable business, is it? You only have so many garage bays and so many weekends…
Mark Samms: that’s very true.
Patrick Batty: so it’s not like classic internet marketing that way. So there are business owners that just don’t even want that much more business and then there are a lot also that don’t know the difference between Google places for instance and regular SEO.
Mark Samms: ahah
Patrick Batty: So I’m probably covering some things that maybe your listeners aren’t interested in
Mark Samms: nono, the thing is, I wanted to go in that direction, I’m enjoying what I hearing here,
Patrick Batty: well, yes, anyway I found it difficult so I’ve been able to sell it; I don’t spend much time selling it because I’ve also built up a couple of other businesses in the mean time. So my SEO business generally takes away with recurring revenue and I don’t really have to put up a lot of time into it on a month to month basis to keep the rankings high. The customers are happy that they are up there and they pay a monthly fee and if I have to do something to get their ranking up there I do it, and if I don’t have to , frankly I don’t. But everybody is happy because of their ranking.
Mark Samms: definitively
Patrick Batty: so I also did a couple of things, this is where things really started to take off for me. When we initially talked, we talked about list building. Well I hadn’t focused too much about list building up until that point so at this point when this SEO business was going, I was about a year into my internet marketing career, taken all kinds of courses, followed all kinds of things, wasn’t sure which way to go, build adsense sites but I really started to think about: it’s time to get on with list building. You hear it from people that had been at it for years and almost the first thing they say is that they wished they had started list building years ago!
Mark Samms: so it comes under a recurrent theme, I should pay some attention to this
Patrick Batty: yeah maybe, people aren’t generally saying it just for the heck of it, it’s really true, sometimes list building looks very daunting, but it doesn’t have to be and again I…even though I have an SEO business, frankly SEO isn’t-unless it’s for a local service, is not all that easy. And you see courses: you know, you pick a term, use market samurai but there are another million people trying to rank for that thing.
Mark Samms: no I agree a 100%
Patrick Batty: so my thing was first of all, I wanted to do a bit of a case study on how to do it without spending years of time trying to build through the classics stuff, again through writing nonstop articles, through all kind of SEO work. So my first thing was, why don’t I really focus on building in a fast way. And I did that in a kind of a gradual step but effectively I ended up building a free WSO out of the results that I had taken out, we’ll talk about that later on.
Mark Samms: yes please definitively, that sounds interesting
Patrick Batty: but effectively what it came down to is build a kind of lead magnet if you want, I’m not sure that’s a term you are familiar with, but something somebody wants to get
Mark Samms: could you explain that a bit more for people so that they understand what a lead magnet is.
Patrick Batty: it doesn’t have to be a lot. Effectively, in my case, I, first of all, did some research, and I built a free thing, a free document about building a list and what I’d done over time is that I’ve opted in that document as I found more and more results. And then I just offered that to the people.
Well effectively, that document is a lead magnet, it means people will sign up to get it and then they get it and they’re on your list. So build a lead magnet can be as simple as writing something down. In my case I wrote about 20 page eBook, basically a word document that I converted into a PDF, hired somebody to do a cover on it for a fiver because at the time I was no good at graphics and I still don’t really like doing graphics. And I made it available.
Mark Samms: excellent
Patrick Batty: I then offered it in a few different ways. I offered it because list building is kind of an internet marketing orientated thing; I offered it as a freebee WSO on the WarriorForum.
Mark Samms: ok
Patrick Batty: and I also ran solo ads to offer it as well because not everybody goes to the WarriorForum
Mark Samms; ok good
Patrick Batty: And then I also did, if your listeners are probably familiar with ad swaps, I did some trials with ad swaps although I had very mixed results with ad swaps. But effectively that document which took me about a day to write and then I’ve updated it about 3 or 4 times at about an hour each time, that document was downloaded about 3000 times.
Mark Samms: wow that’s amazing!
Patrick Batty: so there you have built a list with 3000 people. So now, do I have all 3000 on that particular list? no, because some people will unsubscribe. And some people will unsubscribe the moment they have the document for that matter before they ever had an email from you. And that’s the nature of doing a free WSO compared to a paid one. So which I learned, I didn’t know when I started but I learned that if I buy a paid product I’m gonna use my real email address or at least one that I’ll look at frequently but if I do a free product, many people would use an email address that they’ll use just for that kind of stuff and actually never go there. So as much as doing a free WSO is a great idea and it’s a great way to build a list it’s not as good as a paid product or a list associated with a paid product. Anyway, the key thing is and the point is, again I went a little bit scattered, doing different internet marketing things, adsense, sites, try to build some authority orientated sites, did my SEO business but really I kind of faded away from ad sense, I do have some that make some money but I don’t do very much with them at this point. I let the SEO business go, I continue going and again I’ll take on a new client once in a while but it just kind of keep building a nice revenue stream. The internet marketing business is really my second functioning one and with that I send out regular emails to the subscribers and as a new guy in that kind of internet marketing and affiliate internet marketing I went through a learning curve as well. And the learning curve was that, I was trying, that list I was building was almost a case study itself so I was trying ad swaps, I was sending out emails like the typical guy, another email with another new product that I recommend everyday and I really kind of adopted my style as I learned. Basically my style was now; I tend to do a video update once a week or so where I show how to do something. So that means that people obviously got this book because they are interested in list building so I’ll talk about another list building tips in my videos. I don’t do ad swaps very often anymore. Maybe once a month, I was finding I was getting just as many unsubcribers as subscribers and I saw the other people were making better results, but I saw no point in turning over the list, in other words, maybe somebody’s been on my list for 6 months and I worked hard to maintain a reputation but I found that doing ad swaps that’s for some kind of crummy product even if I tested it out, I don’t go through the one time offers. If I send too many of those things out just because I want to get more subscribers to my list, well frankly, I’m taking the people who are on my list. So as much as the theory of ad swaps is great it’s really hard to find really good products to do it with. Say in my case, my eBook was something that I wrote, I wrote it myself and I keep it updated but so many of the other things, people are just shooting out some POR that they bought for 5 bucks or getting into some massive sales funnel with 8 one time offers. And then you just take people out. So there were days when I was doing ad swaps and I’d get 10 subscribers and 20 unsubscribers. Well that didn’t make much sense. So anyway, I kind of tend to downplay that. I still find solo ads very effective. I’m just testing out another site right now but I don’t even want to divulge it because I don’t know if it’s working yet. So I don’t want a bunch of people over there
Mark Samms: We can have a chat about that after the interview
Patrick Batty: …when I found out about in a day or two it’s not working. But this other site happens to be what it looks like you can get clicks from 1 or 2 or 3 sense which is very very affordable as a way to build a list, it’s ridiculously affordable. I launched a test last night and until the next day or tomorrow, I won’t know whether it’s effective or not. So that’s kind of the path I’ve gone down. So both of those 2 businesses are moving along quite nicely right now and basically I am making a full time income from those 2. And that’s about 2 years and a bit into my internet marketing experience. [Connection lost for a few seconds] I have also been the typical internet marketer, certain days little scattered and buying WSOs was nonstop but I have recently got away from that. And I think that’s really helping, in other words, kind of come up with a plan and stick with the plan long enough to make it work.
Mark Samms: yes it’s definitively about that
Patrick Batty: yes, because there’s been days that, not recently but a while back where I’d picked up a copy of WSOs and then one day I didn’t even remembered it the next day, they were not impressive and I was getting too scattered, too many different things going on at the same time and none of that was focused. So now what I’ve really determined is, I do a little for this business every day, I do a little bit for this other business everyday and I actually I’ve just been involved with a group to launch with a few people involving a 3rd one and actually, that’s where I am spending most of my time right now.
Mark Samms: for a business
Patrick Batty: yes
Mark Samms: do you want to divulge a little bit about that one or?
Patrick Batty: yes well basically what we’ve done is a coaching site and the other 2 people that are involved doing a lot of WSOs. I’ve done some but not many, the other guys, a lot of them. We created a coaching site that tries to get people to go through the hurdles of what they have to do to make money online, it’s not all about WSOs, it’s really just about general internet marketing. But, taking people almost by the hand, from one step to the next, to the next, to the next and kind of getting them away from all the clutter and the confusion. So that’s my recent activity. And it’s actually new, we’ve only been working on it for, I guess, about 4 weeks and not done a public launch on it at all. Right now we are just inviting people to connect with us on Skype and then we’ll show them the site and then if they want to join it well we give it to them.
Mark Samms: is that promoting from your in-house list?
Patrick Batty: it’s kind of from in-house list and it’s kind of a pilot. This will probably be a fairly expensive membership at some point, but right now we’re gonna build it up with the first few hundred people for free
Mark Samms: get an understanding of what they want so you can develop it, yes ok that makes a lot of sense.
Patrick Batty: that’s right. We’re really learning from that because, we, ourselves get involved in a certain kind of marketing but not everybody is like that. I may have had a technical background way back, but there are some people that are trying to make money online that have never ever thought of building a website, for instance.
Mark Samms: true so very true.
Patrick Batty: so we’re really trying to adjust our training and have it set up in a way that it doesn’t matter what background you come in for, you can just get going. So that’s what it’s doing.
Mark Samms: I always wanted a course with services like that.
Patrick Batty: well yeah because again we can’t expect everybody to want to become a plug-in developer or a WSO creator or a massive list builder for that matter. Everybody has things they want to do. I guess, the one thing about internet marketing that we see as a constant people tend to do it because they want to make some money. If you cut everything away, they want to make some money through whatever they can do online whether it’s full time income or whether it’s a few extra dollars every month, one of the other, people want to do it. Or whether they live in the country where the average wage is ridiculously low and they want to be able to sell services in European countries or in North American countries where wages are vastly different, right? Or just like in my case, I didn’t want to spend years looking for a job when I was in my mid fifties because I expected I ran into a lot of barriers. So this way people can come in into these kinds of things from all different points of view or needs or requirements, and they also have a variety of different capabilities. So at this stage we’re just really doing a lot of testing but we’ve got people making money fairly quickly like 2 or 3 weeks at the end of the process.
Mark Samms: that’s really good. It must be quite satisfying as well, to get results back from people.
Patrick Batty: It’s really satisfying. I’m not trying to paint myself into being an angel but it’s really fun when a person comes in and says: “all I have been doing is buying all these things and nothing is working”. And you probably heard that yourself.
Mark Samms: I’ve been in this situation myself as well
Patrick Batty: yes yes same here! It took me a while until I got anything, and frankly my ad sense site wasn’t worth the effort,
Mark Samms: yes I spent a lot of time doing that and didn’t really get anywhere. But then at the same time, I have a friend who does ridiculous amount of money from adsense sites, he was lucky enough he picked the right niches. So it just depends, different strokes for different folks.
Patrick Batty: in our case one of the guys that is also one of the partners on this site has made a ridiculous amount of money and he actually doesn’t do it full time. He actually drives a transport truck full time but he’s great at SEO and he’s great at adsense sites. So he’s one of the instructors that teach it for people that are interested in adsense. But it wasn’t for me so I kind of got the offline part of it covered, the SEO type thing covered and offline work. And in this case I’m actually doing a little of the admin on this site too…
Mark Samms: ok, would you say that no matter what sort of business or niche or industry that you want to go into, when it comes to do online stuff that list building, in most cases, is going to be an important factor within that development.
Patrick Batty: I would think, and I haven’t done all kinds of different niches and certainly in some of them I didn’t build a list at all, but yes, if you think about it, if you build a list, you have people you can reach out to as often as possible, as often as you want. I know some people that absolutely say you should send an email to your list twice a day. Ok now for me that always sounded like a lot,
Mark Samms: I definitively do.
Patrick Batty: you do send them twice a day?
Mark Samms: yes easily, one content related email, or value based only, and then another one that still has some decent content but has a call to action
Patrick Batty: wonderful, well that’s exactly what I’ve heard from a few other people, I hadn’t done it and the reason I hadn’t done it is, the few times I sent 2 a day I got a couple of nastygrams back!
Mark Samms: oh you can’t be scared of stuff like that I think
Patrick Batty: yes that’s right, you’re absolutely right, I since figured that out, as though the list got bigger and bigger, I mean there’s been once where I recorded a video just teaching people how to do something and not selling anything, “hey just wanted to show you if you wanted to add some security to your website, here is a free plug-in, look at this, this is how you do it and I record all this in a nice video and you send it out. And somebody complains!
Mark Samms: that’s just how it goes
Patrick Batty: that’s right, I now know that 1/ be thick skin, /2, there is one in every crowd kind of thing so don’t worry about it. But clearly I’ll take your advice on the 2 a day as well and I’ll try to get myself up to that as well.
Mark Samms: yes and the thing is, there are lots of different ways you can do it; you don’t necessarily have to have just content within the email. Like you say, you do a lot of videos, a video a day? At the end of the day you’re going to build a lot of following by consistently sending out a video every single day plus, if you think about how things happen with your friends, real friends you normally contact with, you normally in contact with them nearly every single day, every other day, do you know what I mean, you speak to them quite a lot, at the end of the day people buy from people that they trust. I feel you do need to have a presence in their mind space on a consistent basis. That’s just from what I’ve seen.
Patrick Batty: well your experience is valuable my friend, I appreciate it because I’m coming around about myself and I’ve not been great at it. I mean I’m not coming on here being interviewed as the….
Mark Samms: no, the whole aim of what I wanted to do today is…, I interview people with huge massive lists, people with smaller lists and the reason why, is because when I started up, when I used to listen to the “gurus” and they’d give their advice on what to do, because they were so far removed from what they did initially to or what they did initially didn’t work anymore and now what they do now is so far removed from me as an individual just trying to start out, so it went over my head. I always used to feel frustrated that I didn’t understand what I needed to do right now what was working right now for people.
And that’s why I wanted to interview a wide range of different marketers at different levels so that people can work out: “ah this guy just started out himself and he’s doing solos, he’s putting his squeeze pages up and you start to work out, ok these are the common things I’m hearing within these interviews, so this is what I need to do, so that’s the key to this… so leading back into that, that then lead to: get somebody on your list, you initially have to have some sort of page that allow somebody to put their name and email address and that can be called a squeeze page, a landing page, you call it a lead magnet type of page, there are a number of different names for it. In regards to a squeeze page or a landing page or an opt-in page or whatever you want to call it, what would you say are the key elements to having a page that converts well and gets people to feel confident enough to put their name or their email address into your form?
Patrick Batty: I’m not sure I have a scientific formula, one I don’t ask for much. I just have name and email and name as one field. In fact I’ll probably stop getting names because a lot of people are just putting junk there anyway. So I never use the name when I send out a message because, so often, that field has junk data based on whatever they filled in the first place. So I don’t use that, I can’t remember what the short code is, but basically I don’t use it, so there is no point in asking for it. I think everything you ask for in your sign up, the more you have, the less people will sign up. You might as well get rid of it and not gonna use it. I like a video on my squeeze page. People relate more to it, they get to see you, they get to hear you, and they get to know you a little bit. I haven’t done any of the videos where you have to sign up to see the video, I have not done that, I should try it and see. And in most cases, I have kept my squeeze page relatively short, so here are the benefits, here is what you get, it’s free, sign up here, call action and have the sign up button maybe 2 or 3 times throughout the page but that’s about it. I mean, it’s not a lot of science, I’m not calling that the lead magnet, I’m calling that the squeeze page. The lead magnet is the thing you’re gonna give them, that what’s I’m saying.
Mark Samms: that’s the offer then I guess
Patrick Batty: yes that’s the offer that’s right. And I tend to use optimised press for my squeeze pages, and in fact there is a theme for most of my websites where I’m offering this kind of thing, again I use some elegant themes for some clients, that type of stuff is not important. If you don’t have offers to give them.
Mark Samms: ok definitively, so let me just recap there. From your experience so far, you found that having a video on the page works really well, listing a few of the benefits your lead magnet is going to offer and keep it relatively short, anything with regards with the positioning of the opt-in, the form itself or?
Patrick Batty: People talk about above the form; mine generally haven’t been that long so. I don’t want to overanalyse it too much, I just put it out there and run my solo ads or free WSO and I get sign ups.
Mark Samms: are you looking for a percentage rate, a certain amount of opt-ins to know if that squeeze page is worthwhile or you’re just happy with whatever you get?
Patrick Batty: to a degree I’m happy with whatever I get, but I tend to get about 30 to 40%
Mark Samms: which is good stuff really
Patrick Batty: which is pretty good. I try not to sweat the little things like that. I mean if I was spending all kind of money advertising and only getting 1% then I would say I’m sweating the little things. But say I have a free WSO, those who are familiar, that’s a WarriorForum special offer, you have to pay, that will fall off the first page of offers within a day and if you wanted it to be back on the first page because most people will never see it if it is not, you have to pay another $40 to do that. Well I tend to get about anywhere between 30 to 40 sign ups every time I pop it up there. So I don’t do it all that often. There are other freeways to get traffic as well but because I get 30 or 40 sign ups and it’s $40 I’m paying about a dollar per sign up, thats not dirt cheap traffic is it? And I do get “unsubcribes”, however I clearly have made a profit overall from the list. The other thing you can do though you can get traffic by having a signature link to it. So any other post you offer you provide on the form could have a link to it. For that matter, it could be posts from a different form. In a different form you could have links as well; there are some other forms you’re on. You can get a lot of signatures and traffic without bumping and paying $40 to run it, right.
Mark Samms: ok that makes a lot of sense.
Patrick Batty: yesterday I started testing out this thing that looks like between 2 or 3 or 5 cents for a click, not a sign up but again I’m really not looking forward to seeing that because there might be some massive advertising on that site if it really works. But again I don’t know
Mark Samms: yes I would love to chat with you a bit more about that after the interview definitively
Patrick Batty: I’ll give you some info once I know and you can share it with your group once we find out whether it works or not.
Mark Samms: so moving on, what I’m thinking about now, you obviously have a squeeze page up now; you’re using free WSOs to generate some traffic to that squeeze page plus solos as well…? And you have people on your list now, how do you maintain a relationship with them and build a relationship that allows you to capture their attention consistently so that they can take action.
Patrick Batty: well again I have learned along the way with this, and I think we all have to adapt as we go and initially I was pumping different things almost every other day and frankly doing what I don’t like people doing to me. So, again, there are so many products you can buy and there is only so much time you have in the day and there is only so much focus you have so there is no point promoting a different product every other day, because unless you have some kind of team working for you, you kind of implementing them all anyway. And rather than just shoot out different products to my list, I’m starting to now, only recommend products that I myself find amusing.
Mark Samms: ok yeah
Patrick Batty: so then what I’ve done, is usage videos about products. So I show them exactly how I am using this particular product, here is what I have achieved with it and have a look if you’re interested. But I’ll do a squeeze capture video or something like that about how I’m doing it. So now I’m also getting away from promoting products the day they are launched.
Mark Samms: oh I see yes
Patrick Batty: I’m doing that for a few reasons. One, because if you trying to get any attention, it’s pretty difficult when there are 300 other people putting out an email about the same product.
Mark Samms: that’s very true
Patrick Batty: Second, this way it gives me a little time to work with the product and if it’s something I like in the first place and then I bought, then I can put out a really meaningful video. Now, I realised there are a lot of things you can get access to, or a review copy advance, but I’m really going this path now, not marketing as often, but I think marketing a little bit more effectively. By really showing things. And it seems to go well. Now the other thing I have recently done, I’m starting to kind of get a little bit more personal too. A little bit like we talked about here. Well this is a fairly lengthy interview but I’ve started to tell a little bit about my back story
Mark Samms: people love that.
Patrick Batty: yeah and some fairly long emails, now I haven’t done this to my main list but I’m doing some really lengthy emails and it’s really showing the rags to riches the rags to riches and that’s actually something that I’ve gone through and I’m showing people and telling people stuff that I have – I mean this may sound odd- but there are some things that I have decided that I can put into an email to a list that I probably wouldn’t have told my best friend! (Laughs)
Mark Samms: no I understand that makes sense, I understand exactly what you’re saying and I validate you saying that, because I actually bought a course, it was called autorespondermadness by a guy named Andre Chapman and what he talks about within that, you know when you watch TV programmes like 24, Dallas. And the way they structure the programme is that, they create a lot of open loops within the programme, so that you need them to close that loop, and it builds up anticipation about what’s gonna happen. Now at the end of each episode they leave it on a cliff-hanger so you’re paining for the next episode. And he talks about creating your follow up sequence in a way where you’re doing just that, you’re talking about your story and you open up some loops about some things that potentially were gonna happen or that you’re gonna tell them about later on, or “I’ll tell you about that later”. You leave it each time on a cliff-hanger, in a very tense place where they’re paining to see what happens the next day.
Patrick Batty: that’s exactly the concept to this
Mark Samms: I spent a lot of time doing that with my clients. Because before that, I was just copying and pasting a video swap and putting it in my follow up sequence and what I found is that I was getting sales but then the open rates and the clicking rates really dropped down after 10 or 15 emails of it. So when I implemented this into my follow-up and I got about 30 emails that follow this process of building a story around it now and by doing so I merged all my open rates and my clicking rates suddenly creeping upwards now and what happened is that somebody may open my email on the 15th email and thought “wow that is amazing content there “ go right back to the beginning and open every single email there after? So my open rates are definitively creeping upwards. And just to validate what you’re saying there, let’s spend time to let your list get to know you, that’s very important
Patrick Batty: I’m with you on that and that’s really what this is about, if you can take the time to write something really extensive, first of all that is true, second, that’s personal, people will connect with you. If you just talk about “I’m brilliant, I’ve built a massive list, I know how to do it” that gets old very quickly right? Very quickly. If people can see, that this is, this is a real guy…
Mark Samms: yes he had struggles….
Patrick Batty: and you see the ones that… “ex and down old drug addict”. In my case it wasn’t any of those things, however I made a fortune, I was kind of .com millionaire, and I lost of fortune and talk about how!
Mark Samms: that’s an interesting story!
Patrick Batty: so in some cases it’s do what I did, and in other case, let me tell you don’t do this!! (Laughs) and give that story and that’s kind of what it’s about. And there is some other extremely personal things that happened that I talk about here that I’ve never put down in writing before because in one case, it was a fairly major world event that I was involved in and I didn’t want to be considered… I didn’t want people considering me exploiting it.
Mark Samms: ok
Patrick Batty: and effectively-I’ll spill the beans a little bit-I was in fact very blessed and fortunate survivor of the World Trade Centre
Mark Samms: oh wow
Patrick Batty: and I was in the one tower when it was hit and for years I thought that I am happy that I’ve recovered but I would never say anything about this publicly because it’s not like the “rara”, rags to riches story right. And I went through it a lot and fortunately was able to get out and fortunately was not injured but I also saw a lot of firemen and policemen coming in as I was leaving the building right. And I also saw some people who refused to leave the building
Mark Samms: wow…
Patrick Batty: and naturally saw the carnage when I got outside so I’ve written a lot about that, now almost to the point that it could be a book but it’s not. It’s not going to be a book either. And frankly, a lot of people know a lot more about the World Trade Centre than I do because having gone through it, I took a long time to get it out of my mind. I’ve never watched a TV programme or read about it because I didn’t really want to think about it too much. Only recently with this massive email series that I did, I decided to open up about it. And why I did that again that or my financials or things like that… you know what, people go through things and you can learn from things that people have gone through. In my case, there are financial things you can learn from, there are SEO things, there is list building, all these kinds of things, but there is also the personal side. And yet I was never sure I wanted to do that but I thought I went full bore, and if I’m gonna tell the whole story that’s a pretty important part of the story. Hopefully I’ll never participate in a world changing event again. So it took a lot for me to decide to do that. I could open myself up for criticism by doing it anyway but you know what, I’ve just decided it’s part of me, it’s the reality and if somebody doesn’t like it, that’s ok, they don’t have to be on the list or they don’t have to read it
Mark Samms: definitively, and like you said before you create heartfelt videos and people still complain, you always gonna get someone that just want to say something, even the most successful people out there and you get people putting them down. I think with success come haters, you get things like that. At the end of the day, if it’s a therapy for you, it allows you to express things that happened to you, that allows you deal with it and at the same time people who relate to what happened with your story, maybe it helps them making better decisions. And maybe you’ve helped just one person; your job is done if that makes sense. Never feel bad about talking your truth.
Patrick Batty: absolutely, that’s a good point. But it is funny; it took me a long time. I actually wrote this whole sequence of emails last week because of September 11 coming up, I’m actually only activating that list in the next day or two. But again the list goes into other stuff, that was one part but I really had to think about it. Because I was nervous writing it, it was hard to write but you know what, I guess I’m with you. I’ll do it, if people like it great, if people don’t like it, I guess I don’t care and hey, I’m not trying to sound arrogant or rude about it. I just thought, I think people will appreciate that at least this guy is being real, he’s straight forward, he’s honest, he’s not giving me a whole line, he’s not trying to build himself up, I was just lucky. And in my case I was just unlucky to be there and lucky to get out. But that’s where it is. I think that in any business you are absolutely right. You’re gonna have to be out there in public a little bit, if you gonna be successful. So you’re always open to some level of criticism, that’s just the name of the game. So I’m not too concerned about it.
Mark Samms: that’s really cool. It’s really strange how in line that is with that course that I bought; the one that I created was more about my business journey. So it went through me being made redundant, me sitting down in a pub with my now business partner. He also was made redundant. I was talking how much I made over the year with another company. So he said why don’t we do it ourselves? It went into that sort of things. I found and I have looked at my stats and I’m a very stats person, I do get the numbers, I’m very much like that and I can see that firstly my open rates and my clicking rates are increasing and in addition to that, my conversions have gone a lot higher, I’m getting a lot better results from my list.
People are staying active and open and longer through the funnel, because how engaging the follow up sequence is. In a sense, the follow up sequence, if I just took the information out of that and put it into a PDF maybe turn it into a video that could be a product in itself.
Patrick Batty: by the way this was also part of a course a workshop that of one of our coaching members attended and it was literally a $5000 weekend workshop and that was the genesis of us starting this kind of email sequence like this. And it’s right; it does have a kind of a cliff-hanger ending in each email.
But effectively, what we’ve done, we’ve made that a core component of our little coaching thing. So, as opposed to a $5000 thing, we’ve got it as part of our coaching material. Lots of people don’t have $5000 to spend on email, learning on how to do emails. So we’re just putting in there as one. But it’s probably the hardest thing for people to do. Because it’s pretty tough to get that personal and also they are long ass email buddy!! Laughs
Mark Samms: I can imagine!
Patrick Batty: I’m just launching mine and right now, I only wrote 8 but I’ll be adding but it’s exactly the same sequence, maybe the guy who does the $5000 programme took the other course or vice versa I don’t know.
Mark Samms: yeah maybe, but maybe what you should do a bit as well, is get outsourcers into different format as well. So maybe you’re reading it out so maybe people have an audio version to listen to, because obviously being there probably has a powerful message. If you can do that, it allows people that maybe that can’t take reading and reading for ages. I can definitively listen to an audio for an hour or something like that.
Patrick Batty: that’s a very good idea and in fact you could even attach that audio with the actual email
Mark Samms: exactly
Patrick Batty: I actually wrote a sales page the other day, that I couldn’t believe how long it was at the end. I’m gonna go back to that now and record a video and then cut the sales page by 90% and …
Mark Samms: or leave the sales page and just have the video on the sales page
Patrick Batty: even if you’re just reading the text in the sales pages and the text was very much something that I could literally read but I don’t think people want to watch me reading something, but you’re right, some people will not set through a 4 page long email. And in this case, some of the things I talk about, and because I talk about everything that happened that day and/or everything that happened along the path of being a .com millionaire. Things that continued along the path like almost losing everything! And then what I had to do to get going again. How it happened and how it worked. But they’re long but you know what, they’re real. So that’s it.
Mark Samms: the good thing is that you answered a ton of my questions through that tract of conversation so I don’t even need to go into these questions
Patrick Batty: I can imagine, once you get me started!
Mark Samms: that’s great stuff!! So, just to sort of wrap it up now, because we’re just hitting the hour mark now. What I want to do, is find out, in relation to training mentors, people who have helped you along the way, who would you say, is there some important people you want to shout out and say they’ve been of a massive influence to you?
Patrick Batty: sure, I’d say 3 or 4; I’ll mention a few names. I’ve mentioned Chris Fair, I mean I’ve never spoken to Chris Fair but I read his material and it was good material. It’s kind of basic, it covers a lot of stuff but I think it’s a good starting point. If people are absolutely brand new that’s a good starting point but it’s not gonna be turning into making a 1000 of dollars a month in a matter of weeks. I don’t think so anyway. Another good guy that I bought some of his programmes is another guy by the name of Brian G. Johnson. Brian does more extensive courses and a good course about authority blogging he’s another one. Another fellow I know and I have spoken to a number of times by the name of Shaun Donoghue. Shaun is more of a techy type guy and I’m part of an inner circle that he has. It’s not very expensive. Well I’m not gonna say the price because I’m not a 100% sure of what it is anymore. I know what I paid when I started, I don’t know what it is today. So I won’t mention the price but he has an inner circle, I think I have a link on my website in fact on it. And I still participate. Now that’s very “techy” orientated and forgive Shaun if you’re listening but I think it’s kind of a technical thing, there is a lot of SEO tricks, tools and things like that, that he gets into. There is another fellow on WarriorForum that I followed and bought some programmes, he goes by the name of Canster. Now his programmes are more expensive but they are very thorough so I like them as well. The guys that I partnered with on this coaching thing are also wonderful trainers. One of those guys is Tchad Nicely and Tchad has done a number of WSOs and does very well out of it. But the nice thing about Tchad is he’s just a wonderful trainer. He really is wonderful. Another fellow is Jim Hudson. Jim is the truck driver that I mentioned and he is as well very laid back kind of guy. Jim lives in Montana I believe it is. And very raw kind of accent but he’s a very low key guy but really knows his stuff about adsense sites so I’d like to mention those guys and those 2 chaps Tchad and Jim are basically were the principle of setting up this coaching thing, I was the 3rd guy that join the team. I’m sure I’m missing some people but that’s probably more than you wanted anyway!
Mark Samms: no, that’s fine, just would like to say, props are due. Also, just so that my list knows, if they want to know more about you and stuff that you do… Because I believe that people could be teaching the same things but they teach it in a way that relates to other people, where they can understand it better. I think it’s important for people to learn different things from different people as well. So obviously let us know how we can follow you and keep in touch with what you’re doing.
Patrick Batty: sure, well my main website is just explaininginternetmarketing.com
Mark Samms: I’ll put a link to that on the blog page as well
Patrick Batty: ok, I also just recently just set up so it’s not fully built out, I set up patrick.batty.com and then frankly the easiest way to take up our coaching is just hit me up on Skype and I’m just patrick.batty, just add me as a contact in Skype
Mark Samms: excellent
Patrick Batty: We’ve haven’t opened up our coaching to an open site to register for it so with that, we just have people talk to us on Skype, we’ll show them the site and if they want to be part of it
Mark Samms: this is an exclusive right here that you’re getting access to and in a inner circle coaching which is not open to the public as of yet, so definitively take action on that. Actually I would like to thank you for coming on today, it’s been amazing and what you shared today was definitively off the wall but based on the initial questions that we initially had but I like the fact that it took us on a different journey by itself, it went in its own direction and I’m happy about that, and I’m really happy with what we came up with here. So thank you for that, thank you for coming on and guys the key thing is, and I always say this in each interview, is that it doesn’t matter how much information you get from this, unless you take action on the information, actually do something, you not gonna get no results. So it’s all about taking action. So again thank you Patrick
Patrick Batty: well thank you Mark you’ve been wonderful interviewer, you’ve pulled some stuff out of me that I wasn’t expecting (laughs)
Mark Samms: ah that’s great! That makes me feel really good and guys as I said this is Mark Samms and until the next interview, take care and good night.